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View Diary: Why The Debt Limit Fight Will Be A Political Face-Off With No Gimmicks Or Constitutional Crisis (208 comments)

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  •  Sponsors or owners - whatever anyone (6+ / 0-)

    wants to call them - are not turning out to be quite as powerful of a force in uniting this caucus and that's because the tea partiers are that crazy and there are a lot of them in the House.

    Going back to Bush, the Republicans walked lock-step together when he was President.  Those days are long gone and the differences between the factions within the caucus are great enough to have created their own private world of gridlock within their ranks.

    I think that one of the mistakes people around here make is framing this controversy in terms of Obama winning or losing.  A definition of a win is mighty broad on a certain level and whether Obama personally wins or not isn't as important as whether or not the people and the country "win" - or really if you limit the discussion exclusively to the question of the Debt Ceiling, what we are talking about whether or not America gets hurt by crazy people.  

    We don't really "win" by not defaulting or by not getting so close to default that the economy and world markets are destabilized.  That's not a win - or should not be defined as a win - that should be defined as "correct", "normal", "responsible", "rational", and "sane" policy for a country such as ours.

    Obama did a smart thing today.  By saying that there is no game, he nullified the concept of playing with this fire as offering the potential for anyone thinking about winning.  It is a totally counter-productive tactic on the part of the Republicans - if anything going down the road of default threat or reality is a no win situation for anyone.

    Basically, Obama can't do anything in this situation other than to make the rational case for sane governance, but the rest is up to  the Congress and specifically the House Republicans.  It is all on them and a lot of them are crazy - crazy people are often immune to reason from anyone - even sponsors.

    •  They have not been pushed yet... (3+ / 0-)
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      inclusiveheart, divineorder, elwior

      They are allowed to play the crazy card, the crazy uncle - didn't Reagan do that back in the day with the Ruskies?

      Put them in a corner and let their caucus sort it out. Let them have their great cleaving (corporate and social conservatives). Force it.

      I'm kind of bummed that you took the 'Obama's win' idea and left out the idea that we're looking at the wrong place to apply pressure.

      These guys have sponsors. These guys have Think Tanks.

      We should be looking at the goals and desired outcomes of the think tanks and corporate sponsors of public policy in order to predict their movements and gauge their success.

      We are totally looking at the wrong metrics for success by the principals in our political system. We are viewing them through our needs and desires and what would be good for us. That's why so many of us, on both sides of the aisle scratch our heads or get pissed off when there is a political non sequitur. But it totally does follow if you look at true needs and desires of the principals.

      Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

      by k9disc on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 01:29:53 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  In the grand scheme of things the sponsors (4+ / 0-)

        are hugely influential and I agree with all of what you say about big picture understanding being a key to better success and actual wins.  

        On the Debt Ceiling question, however, I'm taking a very narrow view in part because I think it is a more advantageous frame in the quest to avert another Republican-created crisis.  Obama is shutting down the debate on this front and rightly so.

        •  I hope you're right... I don't have faith in his (3+ / 0-)

          chosen direction, I think he's tacking right sullying Democrats and socialists and saddling us with the end results of failed conservative policies. I think he serves corporate and the GDP first, and therefore don't trust him to negotiate for our future on these issues.

          It's a real bummer.

          I do think there is value to looking at the metrics and goals of the true constituents of our current government, the corporate sponsors, and contrasting them to what we need as a people and what we are offered in terms of policy choices.

          We need to have a wakening on that front.

          Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

          by k9disc on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 02:25:55 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I agree with you. (0+ / 0-)

            On the Debt Ceiling though progressive objectives are the most vulnerable.  The choice between avoiding worldwide economic contraction and giving up important programs would give the rightwing the absolute upper hand with a huge majority of people.  That's why isolating the debt ceiling debate is critical, IMO.  It is a false choice that should not be a choice.  

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