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View Diary: Why The Debt Limit Fight Will Be A Political Face-Off With No Gimmicks Or Constitutional Crisis (208 comments)

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  •  It's not a set up, it's the law. Treasury (12+ / 0-)

    cannot spend money it doesn't have. I am one of tens of millions who would be directly affected by a default. But you know what, until all the people affected by the totally irresponsible actions of the radical republicans wake up they won't change.

    Further, affiant sayeth not.

    by Gary Norton on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 01:44:35 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Of course it's a political set up. (6+ / 0-)

      Democrats started this hostage crisis nonsense by not raising the debt ceiling when they had control of the House. Obama does not get a free pass. He and Pelosi enabled this series of hostage crises to start.

      Obama has repeatedly stated that he wanted to "modernize" Social Security in a third way kind of way. But without a crisis, he can't get away with it. That makes this a set up.

      Saying " It's the law" is patently absurd.

      Drone strikes on America kids used to be illegal. The President went way out of line in Yemen when he took out someone who was not actively engaged in physical hostilities...and the teenager who was with him.

      Obama has interpreted "the law" creatively to allow him to do extrajudicial killings of American citizens. The executive branch always has the ability to interpret "the law".

      You are clearly very good at "the law".  You have carefully established the parameters of your discussion to achieve the intended result. Nice work.

      look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

      by FishOutofWater on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 02:10:19 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thank you for noticing this! (2+ / 0-)

        it's the first thing I thought of, unfortunately. "Without a crisis", he can't "modernize" it.

        Obama has repeatedly stated that he wanted to "modernize" Social Security in a third way kind of way. But without a crisis, he can't get away with it. That makes this a set up.
        And because it's relevant to your comment, I'm commenting here further.

        From the diarist:

        the President knew that both internationally and domestically taking either of those actions would be viewed as a gimmick
        What people "view" as a gimmick is irrelevant. The law is the law.

        The 14th Amendment is a lawful option. The platinum coin is a lawful option.

        Yet the President has already stated he won't avail lawful options at his disposal.  He is bound by the Constitution. If he won't follow it by using the tools at his disposal, tools granted by that Constitution to the President of the United States, then we've got a big problem here.

        It is time to #Occupy Media.

        by lunachickie on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 03:21:48 PM PST

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        •  Now that is true (5+ / 0-)

          Gary doesn't rule out either if the other two options.  Obama did that.  He is taking on this crisis because he wants to

          Now we shall see whether he is simply calling Boehners bluff (only a clean debt limit rise gets his signature and through the Senate) or if it an excuse to cave.  This time I think it's the former actually.  Not sure why, but that is what would make sense to me.  

          Hay hombres que luchan un dia, y son buenos Hay otros que luchan un año, y son mejores Hay quienes luchan muchos años, y son muy buenos. Pero hay los que luchan toda la vida. Esos son los imprescendibles.

          by Mindful Nature on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 06:34:41 PM PST

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        •  It's politics. The views of the people matter (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Quicklund
          What people "view" as a gimmick is irrelevant.
          If enough people view it as a gimmick, then Obama and the Democrats and the agenda we want passed will suffer greatly.  If the people view the Republicans as bringing down the government for their own selfish ends, then they will suffer.

          "But the problem with any ideology is that it gives the answer before you look at the evidence." - President Clinton

          by anonevent on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 07:04:05 PM PST

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          •  The law is the law (0+ / 0-)

            regardless of what the people think. It's not like it's hard to see that. Explained correctly, Americans would certainly understand if their President didn't want their economy to tank completely--and there were perfectly legal remedies available to him.

            If he didn't use them, and the economy tanked--say, to Depression levels--they would ask "Why didn't he do something??"

            As they should. As we all should.

            Now, if you want to make the argument that the Corporate Information Services would flog The Great Gimmick as a meme until it reached Tea-Party-like proportions, that's something else entirely.

            It is time to #Occupy Media.

            by lunachickie on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 07:17:25 PM PST

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      •  Wow (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Gary Norton, Quicklund, MichaelNY

        It is sad to see supposed liberals take such a firm stance against the rule of law.  Here the statutes are duly enacted and thus constrain the president.  The drone strike analogy is a bad one since the text of the law unclear.  Here the statutes themselves are pretty clear.  You may not like the result (I don't) but it is what the words say.  Sorry they don't comport with your vision

        Hay hombres que luchan un dia, y son buenos Hay otros que luchan un año, y son mejores Hay quienes luchan muchos años, y son muy buenos. Pero hay los que luchan toda la vida. Esos son los imprescendibles.

        by Mindful Nature on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 06:32:03 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Many Confederate soldiers (0+ / 0-)

        and American Indians were killed extrajudicially in the 19th century.

        Vicksburg and Fredericksburg were shelled.

    •  It occurs to me that President Obama (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Gary Norton, MichaelNY, llywrch

      may not be able to pay all of the US' bills if the debt limit is not raised, but he will have effectively absolute control over the prioritization of the bills that do get paid.

      If that's true, he should be able to inflict a significant amount of pain on the people who are most likely to pressure the Republicans, quite rapidly.

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