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View Diary: US already has high elder poverty rate, so why are Social Security cuts even on the table? (223 comments)

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  •  Do you understand compound interest? (10+ / 0-)

    Now imagine it in reverse, with losses instead of gains compounding and accelerating year after year.

    •  and even with compounding interest (0+ / 0-)

      we're not talking about significant dollar amounts.  krugman pegs it at 3% over 10 years.

      http://strengthensocialsecurity.org/...

      even that group, who is adamantly opposed to CCPI, says the difference would be $500 after 10 years.  $500 spread out over 10 years; that's $50/year, tops, if one averages it out.  

      i'm sorry, but nobody but the poorest of the poor is going to notice a difference of $50/year, and EVERY mention of CCPI i've seen from obama/dems/anyone saying it isn't concentrated evil specifies needing some mechanism to protect the elderly poor.

      yes, it compounds; that's entirely the point -- that it not hit people immediately, but gradually, where there will be fewer survivors affected by the long-term compounding effects.  the median age at death for women, who live longer, is 80. the max impact most seniors would see is 4.5% over 15 years.

      Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

      by Cedwyn on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 05:13:33 AM PST

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      •  Neo-libs strike again (5+ / 0-)
        where there will be fewer survivors affected by the long-term compounding effects.  the median age at death for women, who live longer, is 80. the max impact most seniors would see is 4.5% over 15 years.
        and what should my life expectancy be in my mid-40s?

        How about the 18-year-old vet?

        38 U.S.C. 1104 - COST-OF-LIVING ADJUSTMENTS, Sub-chapter 1, Sec. 1104 - Cost-of-living adjustments
        (a) In the computation of cost-of-living adjustments for fiscal years 1998 through 2013 in the rates of, and dollar limitations applicable to, compensation payable under this chapter, such adjustments shall be made by a uniform percentage that is no more than the percentage equal to the social security increase for that fiscal year, with all increased monthly rates and limitations (other than increased rates or limitations equal to a whole dollar amount) rounded down to the next lower whole dollar amount.
        Quit spreading misinformation about who this affects as it obviously doesn't affect you or your shared sacrifice, does it?

        Don't be a dick, be a Democrat! Oppose CPI cuts! Support Social Security and Veteran Benefits!

        by Jeffersonian Democrat on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 05:20:56 AM PST

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        •  what are you talking about who this affects? (0+ / 0-)

          are you referring to SSDI?  everything i've seen about CCPI specifies leaving that program alone.

          what did i say that was misinformation?  is the median age at death for women not 80?  do women not live longer?

          Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

          by Cedwyn on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 05:39:40 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  No you are implying (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            midwesterner, Laconic Lib, Mr Robert

            as you well know, that this cut will not be a big deal because it affects people who will die in a few years anyway.

            But you leave out people who rely on CPI who are not elderly, as you often do in this argument.

            You cite news reports or other "everything" you've seen.  However, it really comes down to fed law, and what the law says.  The law is that SSDI and VA are governed my Soc Sec COLA increases.

            Until the U.S.C. states disabled are spared, I'll keep screaming.  In fact I'll keep screaming even if it does because that is what good Democrats share, solidarity

            Don't be a dick, be a Democrat! Oppose CPI cuts! Support Social Security and Veteran Benefits!

            by Jeffersonian Democrat on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 05:49:38 AM PST

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            •  we're talking about hypotheticals, no? (0+ / 0-)

              so what should i cite besides news stories?  everything i've read says they would leave SSI/SSDI alone.

              but one can discuss social security itself without the statements applying to SSI/SSDI.

              However, it really comes down to fed law, and what the law says.
              yup.  so if CCPI is enacted and the law states that SSI/SSDI are exempt?

              Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

              by Cedwyn on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 05:55:16 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  then I'll keep screaming (7+ / 0-)

                because if I were a "I-got-mine-jack-screw-you" type, I'd be a Republican.

                There is a long trending history of this sort with veteran benefits as people who tried to cut benefits pitted one generation of vets against another, as we saw with the new GI Bill.  Now they employ the same strategy against Social Security

                But since Social Security is a signature Democratic program and since solidarity is a signature Democratic principle - I'll keep screaming

                Don't be a dick, be a Democrat! Oppose CPI cuts! Support Social Security and Veteran Benefits!

                by Jeffersonian Democrat on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 06:05:43 AM PST

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                •  VA has been expanded lots recently (0+ / 0-)

                  it's immune from the sequester.  anyhoo, if i meant SSI/SSDI, i'd say SSI/SSDI.  if i say SS, i mean SS and only SS.  

                  and i have always qualified that any switch to CCPI would have to afford protection to those who need it.  i have also advocated expanding SSI/SSDI eligibility.  i don't think those programs should be touched otherwise, and i don't think they should switch the tax code to CCPI.  the programs don't use the same metric now; i don't see why they have to.

                  feel silly for assuming things about me yet?  

                  Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

                  by Cedwyn on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 06:12:07 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  again, VA has a long history (4+ / 0-)

                    at first it was Korean vs. WWII vets with cuts
                    Then Korean & WWII were pitted against Vietnam vets

                    And you are right, VA has been expanded a lot recently with most of the programs only affecting OIF/OEF veterans since 2001, essentially creating a two-tier vet system.

                    And no, you can't speak about CCPI and only speak about Soc Sec and not SSDI, Railroad Pensions, military retirement, VA benefits because all of them are governed by the same United States Code .  There is no separation.

                    Hopefully, we're talking about hypotheticals that will never come to fruition because enough people raise a stink, but don't expect programs under the radar to be spared when no one speaks up for them.  Most people do not know that CPI governs VA, most people think we are speaking about something that affects the elderly and who cares about them.  Part of that is from information like you put out in diary after diary.

                    And because you put these neo-liberal OFA points out in diary after diary I certainly do not feel silly

                    Don't be a dick, be a Democrat! Oppose CPI cuts! Support Social Security and Veteran Benefits!

                    by Jeffersonian Democrat on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 06:45:33 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  again, though (0+ / 0-)

                      it all depends on how the law is written, hey?

                      Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

                      by Cedwyn on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 06:58:25 AM PST

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                      •  What's your cite? (4+ / 0-)

                        What's the quibble over how a law is written when you're pushing cuts to programs for poor elderly and disabled people, including veterans?

                        What's the point in showing excessive cruelty by taking money from poor people when there's no need to do so?

                        What kind of depravity of the soul does it take to push for unnecessary cuts to those less fortunate simply to please some mentally diseased wealthy corporate donors?

                        Democratic Leaders must be very clear they stand with the working class of our country. Democrats must hold the line in demanding that deficit reduction is done fairly -- not on the backs of the elderly, the sick, children and the poor.

                        by Betty Pinson on Tue Jan 15, 2013 at 07:39:57 AM PST

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      •  Give it up, dude (0+ / 0-)

        You're about as likely to have a rational discussion of the CCPI on this site as you are to have a rational discussion of gun control on the NRA site.

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