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  •  actually the original framing (3+ / 0-)

    had not a lot to do with democracy as we think of it, the electoral college and the early shinigans are proof enough that the framers feared the mob more then the few

    •  well, they were the few. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      blueoasis, sockpuppet, AoT, bontemps2012

      When banjos are outlawed, only outlaws will have banjos.

      by Bisbonian on Thu Jan 17, 2013 at 06:58:09 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Hamilton and Madison feared the few. (0+ / 0-)

      "Federalist Papers" makes that clear. Again and again with examples of greed.

      They and Jefferson differed on how best to fight against "faction."

      And the electoral college ??? That protects minorities from undue suppression. Once a winning party secures its victory in a state, there is no particular reason for it to beat down the minority.

      With a popular vote for the presidency, you would see a major temptation to wipe out the minority, to erase their votes altogether. Presidential elections could well become blood sports.

      Madison was a genius. He saw many worlds that could be and chose one of the best.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012 "Have you left no sense of decency, sir, at long last?" Army/McCarthy 1954

      by bontemps2012 on Fri Jan 18, 2013 at 06:55:44 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  sorry I disagree (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bontemps2012

        And the election of 1828 shows it when the Electoral College clearly voted for John Quincy over the actual person the people selected (Andrew Jackson)

        The framers liked democracy but in a hands off, nice while it kinda of works way. The fact is the framers never thought about political parties nor did most of them even like them.

        I am grateful for the system the framers created but like any rose it has it's thorns

        •  Please, consider the protections (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          duhban

          that the Electoral College provides. As outlined above.

          The aim is not to provide a perfect democracy. The aim is to prevent tyranny.

          Madison's Folly ???

          Madison intended to blunt the impact of region supremacy. That meant restricting the sway of a regional tyrant to the EC votes of his own area. The rest of the country could likely keep him out of the presidency, no matter what.

          "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012 "Have you left no sense of decency, sir, at long last?" Army/McCarthy 1954

          by bontemps2012 on Fri Jan 18, 2013 at 04:57:00 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  true but then we agree I believe (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            bontemps2012

            that the intent of the framers was not to construct a democracy as we would understand the word today. Granted what they constructed was for the time a watershed moment for democracy at the time but it's not what we would view as  democracy

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