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View Diary: "I snapped, shot 3 people, I'm sure," Stidham told police. Police confirm: 3 people dead (323 comments)

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  •  I don't understand your point about Stidham (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Phil S 33, Pager, fuzzyguy, tonyahky

    Did he have a history of domestic abuse?  Was he a felon or was he under a psychiatrist's care?  Had he made previous threats?  What changes in current gun laws would you suggest that would have prevented his buying a gun?

    I would point out that my daughter's former co-worker's estranged husband has made all sorts of threats against the office staff, making 200+ calls and sending 200+ faxes per day and being suspected of making a bomb threat.  He did stop his drive-bys but police have been unable to find him at this point.  What should be done in the interim while the police locate him?

    It is easy to decry events; it is more difficult to suggest realistic solutions that will prevent future events (this is a general observation and not meant as personal criticism)

    •  entlord the Baptist minister who sold him the semi (14+ / 0-)

      automatic weapon 5 hours before he murdered the 3 people said he passed the background check.

      That would lend me to think he was not a felon

      You seem to be confused as to the goal of gun safety laws.  The goal is to have the number of deaths by gun go as close to zero as possible.

      If the killer one not able to purchase a gun so quickly all 3 of those people would still be alive.

      Therefore, without knowing what kind of ammunition he used ... I can say that if there were a longer waiting period for a background check, say 30 days minimum then all 3 would be alive right now.

      And, if there were 30 day min on background checks to clear and actually purchase the gun, then maybe he would have not been so "snappy" in 30 days?

      •  you are making the assumption that if he had (4+ / 0-)

        waited he would have relented.  I am not so sure since he did have at least a modicum of a "cooling off" period.  I am not so sure that a longer "cooling off" period would have made any difference in the long run.
        A point which I should have made is that it seems he may have some sort of history of domestic violence.  Domestic violence is a red flag on a background check.  The problem is that, for a variety of reasons, domestic violence is underreported so that those who should be flagged are not. I apologize for the omission  

        •  entlord, I am stating a fact - if he had (7+ / 0-)

          waited all 3 victims would still be alive.  That is a fact.

          Also, we don't know if a background check would have cleared if the check were more thorough with a 30 min requirement.

          This guy went to that Baptist minister, told him what gun he wanted, the Baptist minister did a background check, he passed, he took the gun and within 5 hours 3 people are dead.

          Also, we do not know if 30 days would have allowed him to "cool off" but there is a likely chance he would have.

          •  If you know anything about DV, (10+ / 0-)

            you will recognize and recant your last sentence. The likelihood of him "cooling off" is about zero when it comes to men who are violent against women and children. If anything, sometimes the longer they "stew" the more violent they become.

            I think it's a great discussion to have, a 30 day waiting period and I favor that, personally. I just think you are burying or flat out choosing to ignore an equally important story--that this is a classic case of domestic violence which we as a nation continue to ignore, to our own ongoing peril of our loved ones.

            I can just about forgive the Brits for starting our revolutionary war and burning DC to the ground during the war of 1812 for giving us Led Zeppelin.

            by Pager on Fri Jan 18, 2013 at 09:33:23 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  yes, and there is no (0+ / 0-)

              background check than can substitute for making it impossible to buy these weapons and hollow point bullets.

              DV is a huge problem, as is alcohol. There are all kinds of excuses reasons for gun violence that we seem to accept but don't really have to. I'm not saying making it harder to buy a super-lethal gun and cop-killer ammo is going to end DV or all gun violence, but it might make things a little less deadly.

        •  Doesn't matter (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DSPS owl, radical simplicity

          If there were a 5-day waiting period, only that, he wouldn't have the gun yet, as only 3 days have passed since he initiated the purchase.  Regardless of what he might or might not have done in the future, those people would still be alive now.  At least they wouldn't have been shot by that person with that gun, because he'd still be waiting to get it.

          What do we make of the contrast between heroic teachers who stand up to a gunman and craven, feckless politicians who won’t stand up to the N.R.A.? -- Nicholas Kristof, NYT --

          by Land of Enchantment on Fri Jan 18, 2013 at 11:59:55 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  as noted by Pager above, is there really a (5+ / 0-)

            cooling off period for abusers and the short answer is "no" They are not reactive in their abuse; they are proactive.  That is one myth we need to get over.  My daughter's boyfriend was always claiming she "made" him do bad things (for example she said "No I will not give you half of my tax refund; I need to buy winter coats for the girls"  This statement made him pick up a lamp and try to hit her in the head with it)

            While the people would be alive today, please do not think that they would be alive in 30 days because he would have "cooled off".  There is no cooling off for abusers

            •  prevent him getting a gun at the store, (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              andalusi, happymisanthropy

              does he steal one somewhere or instead beat his victims to death or stab them?

              Cannot guarantee a waiting period would have kept them alive.

              LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

              by BlackSheep1 on Fri Jan 18, 2013 at 01:07:50 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  OT, but I recently (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              entlord, wonmug

              read a fascinating investigation of the language used by sociopaths, and they use more "cause-effect" language than non-sociopaths. In their minds, X caused me to do Y makes a lot of sense. He really did try to harm your daughter because she withheld something he wanted, thereby naturally "causing" him to (fill in the blank, there is no behavior too outrageous that can't be explained by being "provoked" in this manner).

        •  A waiting period saves lives (4+ / 0-)

          We will never know if he would've "snapped" after 30 days, but statistics show a waiting period saves lives.

    •  I agree on that first case---he appeared "OK" (11+ / 0-)

      ---nothing to stop him buying a gun; except perhaps, a short waiting period before you can walk out of ANY place with a gun.

      The immediacy of access to a gun has caused more deaths than there would have been if there were some limits.

    •  easy suggestion just above your post: a (15+ / 0-)

      waiting period. no same day sales.

      on the theory that some -- no, not all, but regulations on cars, speed limits, drunk driving laws, etc. don't stop all fatal car accidents, but they do help -- people will decide against homicide or suicide if they have to wait a while to buy a gun.

      And those who want guns for general purposes, with no immediate "need" (rage or despair) to kill themselves or somebody else, should have no problem with planning for a waiting period.

      •  that is the problem with trying to apply (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        fuzzyguy, BlackSheep1, andalusi

        generalities to specific situations.  Well thought out regulations will decrease the number of tragedies.  For example, I would like a requirement that all weapons being transported have a trigger lock in place.  Such a requirement would have prevented a 7 year old's death who died when his father placed a 9MM in the seat not realizing there was a round in the chamber.  He evidently accidentally squeezed the trigger.

        It is easy to say with certainty specific accidents may have been prevented but felonies are another matter.  While it is desirable to block  as many avenues as possible to felonious behavior, at the same time it is difficult to posit that another avenue would not have been chosen.

        However that is one of my flaws; I constantly want additional information to try to better understand the dynamics of any given situation  

    •  A waiting period (7+ / 0-)

      That was also one of the regulations included in the Australian gun control package.

    •  entlord: get better police, in that case (0+ / 0-)

      he's sending faxes, and they can't find him?
      200 calls a day, and they can't trace the cell or landline?

      either they're way overworked / understaffed, or somebody's shining somebody on.

      meanwhile ... if she's not in a class already get your daughter some good self-defense and first-aid training.

      Heck, everybody ought to have those anyhow.

      LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

      by BlackSheep1 on Fri Jan 18, 2013 at 01:04:53 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  he may be in another state, dialing in his (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BlackSheep1, radical simplicity

        harassment.  We are 20 minutes from the border so it is easy for him to hopscotch back and forth which is why I told my daughter to involve the FBI

        •  I was theorizing ahead of my data. (0+ / 0-)

          Best to your daughter, her coworker, and you. Yep, get the FBI involved if you suspect border-crossing.

          Still, they may well consider this a low-level threat....

          LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

          by BlackSheep1 on Fri Jan 18, 2013 at 01:33:31 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

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