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View Diary: Magic tricks, loopholes, government shutdowns and the debt ceiling (158 comments)

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  •  How do you know what Obama is planning? (7+ / 0-)

    There are strong political reasons for Obama not to publicly declare his course of action if Republicans don't extend the debt limit.  Why assume that he really has no plans?  Why would he reveal them in advance if he did have them?

    •  There are many here at DK... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      fou, Bon Temps

      who believe they can read Obama's mind and tease out his actual feelings on any issue...without ever having met the man.  Amazingly, these are also usually the same folks who think Obama is a secret conservative, corporatist, etc.

      Nothing worth noting at the moment.

      by Bonsai66 on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 08:22:13 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'm going on what he said (10+ / 0-)

      I guess he could be lying about that, but why tell that lie if you don't mean it?

      Anway, it's probably moot based on what we are hearing on the debt ceiling from Republicans.

      But as to your critique "Why would he reveal them in advance if he did have them?"

      That was my point on the "magic tricks and loopholes." Why reveal your thinking on that?

      You make my point.

      •  probably not so bad (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Armando, Creosote

        Considering the shape of the eurozone, our lapses won't really impact as much as we think.  With an interest rate approaching zero on treasury notes, the world knowingly estimates that we won't default--in fact, are less likely to default than any other large entity.  
        The Rs want the government shut down under the guidelines you enumerate --  it's the beast.  FOXNEWS is stronger today with the crazies, and this is the wet dream.  I would love to see the president declare vulnerable much of Defense spending on weapons/research.  That would force certain lobbyists to swing over to our side.

        Apres Bush, le deluge.

        by melvynny on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 08:32:50 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Defense spending and the sequester (6+ / 0-)

          This is an important point.

          How committed is the Obama Administration to standing strong on the sequester if the GOP will not agree to a reasonable deal?

          •  This is key, because in addition to the government (6+ / 0-)

            services that would not be funded under a shut down that you listed, the sequester would kick in a the same time.  That would put pressure on defense contractors and others who would not otherwise be inconvenienced by the shutdown.  I believe that gives Obama leverage, if he chooses to use it, that many (republicans, pundits and some folks here) don't think he has.  The sequester bites just about everybody, but it bites corporate America particularly hard and they will not be pleased.

            Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a Republican. But I repeat myself. Harry Truman

            by ratcityreprobate on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 09:25:40 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Defense spending has added over $29.7 trillion (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            3goldens, oculus, Creosote

            in new debt in 12 years for Iraq/Afghanistan.  

          •  GOP will claim that every Defense dollar is (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            midwesterner

            "providing for the national security, including the conduct of foreign relations essential to the national security or the safety of life and property."

            Democrats have to vigorousely challenge this notion and really focus on what is truly "essential."

            I'm not too optomistic on that happening right now.

          •  10/23/2012 during Foreign Policy (0+ / 0-)

            debate - Obama on sequester

            Obama responded by saying that sequestration happened because of Congress, not through his administration, and that it would not happen.

            "First of all, the sequester is not something that I've proposed. It is something that Congress has proposed. It will not happen," Obama said. link

            Seems that he has laid the foundations for a strong stand against letting the sequester happen.

            No courage = No $$$ for Dems

            by MO Blue on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 06:27:52 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Public relations not public policy... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Creosote
        Anway, it's probably moot based on what we are hearing on the debt ceiling from Republicans.
        I'm not sure why so many people buy the GOP's attempt at a PR move to shift the focus from the debt ceiling to the budget with their new focus-grouped "plan". It's a PR fog, not a plan.

        Multiple Democratic leaders (post plan announcement) have said that if it's not a clean bill they won't support it, and the GOP's plan is not a clean bill. Seems straightforward enough.

        So it likely won't happen. So it's not actually something that will avoid the debt ceiling thing. And even if it was, it'd only be for three months.

        Is there something I'm missing regarding the substantive importance of this latest doomed GOP PR stunt plan, compared with all the failed GOP PR stunt plans of the past? When it fails, will the GOP really raise the debt ceiling cleanly?

        it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

        by Addison on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 10:51:35 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  It isn't what OBAMA is planning (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      3goldens, offgrid, Gary Norton, Creosote

      When there is a possibility of a shutdown there are certain steps that must be taken prior to that shutdown. These are "known knowns." Agencies MUST give employees who are considered non-essential some warning of when they will be furloughed, usually 60 days.

      The interesting thing this time, is that only Defense has had an appropriation bill passed by Congress. The other twelve appropriation bills are in limbo, and the majority of the government is being financed through a continuing resolution.

      Note -- "passing a budget" is nothing. It Does Not Fund the Government. What we're talking about here are "spending" bills, i.e., appropriations -- these are the vehicles of finance that allow the agencies to pay their bills.

      What the Senate has been doing, what the House Republicans call "not passing a budget" -- is passing the appropriation bills in place of a budget. IOW, they've followed the rule that spending bills must arise in the House -- in some cases they make changes, but those changes have to be agreed on by the House.

      And just to be clear -- EVERY agency prepares a budget request every fiscal year, which is sent up to their Secretary,* who then sends it to the Office of Management and Budget, and eventually it reaches the House Committee which prepares the appropriation bill based on those budget requests.

      *Note -- at any level, cuts and changes can be made to that agency budget request, you can't always get what you want...

      •  This has already gone out (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Gary Norton, Creosote

        To DoD employees and contract workers.  
        Furlough of up to one day a week if not more.
        At a minimum of 32 hours of non pay for the month.

        In the dc region this could be hugh to federal employees capacity to met basic personal overhead, such as mortage payments, etc...  I know we're gonna be in a world of hurt if it happens.  

        Takin it to the Streets! time to GOTV

        by totallynext on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 10:53:12 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Is there anyone who still thinks (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Gary Norton

      Republicans aren't going to raise the debt ceiling?

      Seriously?

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