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View Diary: Magic tricks, loopholes, government shutdowns and the debt ceiling (158 comments)

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  •  The Clinton solution to let the morons shut down (21+ / 0-)

    the government for a short, ridiculous little stunt will do more to bankrupt their arguments about how we don't really need government than all the speeches and campaign commercials in the world. I think of it like a child who says if you don't give him candy he'll hold his breath until he passes out. You can try to stop him up to a certain point because you're a responsible adult. But, if reasoning with him doesn't work, at some point you just have to say: "Go ahead, you little shit. Knock yourself out."

    Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

    by tekno2600 on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 08:23:50 AM PST

    •  I agree with one caveat (9+ / 0-)

      Unlike Clinton., Obama faces a fragile economy.

      He has a tougher balancing act imo.

      •  Yes. But if the Republicans want to crash the (10+ / 0-)

        economy, Obama may not have the power to stop them. Magic tricks and such won't work. So, if Obama says ahead of time that he doesn't think he has the power to stop Congress from behaving like morons, then whatever happens as a result of their actions is all on them. If he tries heroically to issue script and mint coins, not only will it not work (and make him look weak and desperate in the process), but it will actually save Republicans from suffering from the full effect of their own stupidity. At this point, the only way out is to force them to own up to their bankrupt ideology and back down. They've got nothing and they're going to have to work with him eventually. The longer they put it off, the more likely it is they will lose the House in 2014.

        Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

        by tekno2600 on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 08:42:09 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  No magic tricks (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          tekno2600, alice kleeman, Creosote

          on budgets, appropriations and the sequester.

          We are now in a 1995/1996 situation with the complication that Obama has a fragile economy to consider.

          •  I know, but giving up the illusion of control is (5+ / 0-)

            really important and therapeutic to do in certain situations. Obama doesn't hold all the cards. There are people who don't want a deal with him no matter what. They've tried this game before of trying to hurt the economy and thinking Obama will be blamed. Instead, people blamed them and re-elected him. Now they seem poised to try that again. Clearly, Obama does not want the economy to suffer, but just like the little kid holding his breath, you can't always stop somebody from doing dumb things to themselves. With no other good options out there, I think you just have to call the bluff.

            Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

            by tekno2600 on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 08:54:13 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  He holds his cards (7+ / 0-)

              A veto.

              And a Democratic Senate.

              Clinton only had the veto and he had to veto a number of Congressionally approved budgets during the 1995-1996 budget standoff.

              Obama has more cards in that sense (also Obama has won reelection and Clinton FACED reelection) but Clinton had something Obama does not have - a strong economy.

              •  None of those things can stop the House from (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                3goldens, Creosote

                defaulting if they really want to. So, I think he needs to be more hands off here. If the Republicans want to hang themselves, he needs to stop pulling the rope away. And call me cynical, but if the wingnuts eff-up the economy (which would probably just be minor and short-term), then that's a great time to push for more stimulus.

                Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

                by tekno2600 on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 09:10:35 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  You're talking about the debt ceiling (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  tekno2600, chuckvw

                  I think the President does have tools for the debt ceiling but it appears the issue is now likely moot.

                  I'm referencing where I believe the confrontation will come - the CR/sequester.

                  •  I don't think the debt ceiling is permanently (5+ / 0-)

                    solved, just delayed.
                    The sequester has multiple aspects. The anti-stimulative cuts and the potential to shut down government if a budget deal or continuing resolution cannot be agreed to. But, again, Obama does not have full control over this. If people want to see the bad effects of slashing spending in a weak economy, then that's probably where were headed. Obama might be able to soften the blow a little, but I doubt he'll stop it all. The important thing, however, is to let people know ahead of time that he thinks the cuts are a mistake and to blame the shit out of the Republicans for any bad effects that result from it.

                    Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

                    by tekno2600 on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 09:20:59 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

              •  he does hold all the cards... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                chuckvw

                I agree that President Obama holds all the cards.  The Constitution flat-out guarantees that America will pay for all the debts it incurs; it does not say, "if we feel like it, or if we can negotiate away something else that we don't like."  Thus, if the Republicans refuse to authorize the debt ceiling, they can be arrested for treason -- refusing to uphold the Constitution.  

                Haul Bawl-Baby Boehner and his minions off to jail, without bail, or just threaten to, and they will all turn on a dime and vote to authorize whatever it is they need to authorize.  

                In truth, Mr. Boehner needn't worry -- his face would blend in with his jumpsuit, and people might not recognize that he has been incarcerated -- but Mr. Cantor and Mr. Ryan and the other fools don't want to be photographed  in prison garb.  

    •  American voters need a reminder (5+ / 0-)

      that no matter what Republicans claim in their 30-second campaign ads, they SUCK at running the government.

      A government shutdown would be that reminder.

      Filibuster reform now. No more Gentleman's agreements.

      by bear83 on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 08:31:22 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

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