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View Diary: More on the House GOP's new debt limit ransom demand, and by ransom demand I mean complete surrender (93 comments)

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  •  Um, it's just a three-month delay. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Capt Crunch, midwesterner

    "Hitler surrenders, decides to wait until Spring to invade Russia!"

    The gloating from Daily Kos is ridiculous. They are playing for time until they look better. 3 months is nothing. It's a tactical delay.

    it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

    by Addison on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 09:08:48 AM PST

    •  clearly you missed David Brooks and Charles (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Matt Z, wishingwell, FiredUpInCA

      Krathammer begging for mercy, and Krugman admitting he was wrong.  The Republicans just admitted they've got nothing, and they look even more pathetic by making it a short-term cave.  

      It's the long game, friends, Obama has them by the short and curlies and he's publishing the photos.  

      I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

      by I love OCD on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 09:16:16 AM PST

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      •  We'll see. (3+ / 0-)

        I don't think Obama was out there selling Chained CPI (and getting Pelosi to help) for his own amusement. Do you?

        In any case, assuming Congress and the President accept and can pass this deal, we'll be right back here in exactly the same place before July 4th. But people can be happy now if they want.

        it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

        by Addison on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 09:19:17 AM PST

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        •  Someone needs to research what else chained (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          wishingwell

          CPI impacts.  I'm not invested enough to care because I trust Obama to keep the safety net, and strengthen it.  (Cuz 4 years of data back my trust up, not because I'm a 'bot.)

          I wondered because the Republicans blew it off so fast.  Maybe defense spending, or private contractors, or subsidies to factory farmers?  It's got to be something that would hurt their fundraising.

          I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

          by I love OCD on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 09:26:54 AM PST

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          •  Chained CPI hasn't gone away... (3+ / 0-)

            ...with the 3-month can-kicking "victory". Obama pro-actively wants it. It wasn't a thing that he'd be forced into, it was a thing that some (including me) felt he'd trade at some point during the February/March fiscal FUBAR sequence as the Democrats' sacrifice in the big deal.

            I'll also point out that in no way is the debt ceiling even put off for 3 months, because the deal may not pass, or it may be intended for PR purposes but not intended to pass -- to make the "negotiation" about the budget instead of the debt ceiling.

            We'll likely know in mid-March how it plays out, unless they kick all the cans to May/June.

            it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

            by Addison on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 09:31:32 AM PST

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            •  So it's best to remain convinced that (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              PhillyJeff

              Obama has nefarious plans to destroy the safety net.  Got it.  The fact that he's done the opposite for 4 years means nothing.  

              When your fears mirror those of Wayne LaPierre, maybe you're reading the wrong pundits.  

              David Brooks and Charles Krauthammer are begging him to stop making the Republicans look like loons and I still read on a Democratic blog that he's a bad negotiator with no interest in what's best for American citizens.  Fucking baffles me.

              I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

              by I love OCD on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 10:00:37 AM PST

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              •  Erm... (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                limpidglass, Capt Crunch

                ...I'm talking about Chained CPI. Obama himself has pushed the idea and put it on the table -- recently. Pelosi, too. You're beclowning yourself acting like it's some paranoid delusion that Chained CPI is  on its way.

                it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

                by Addison on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 10:05:58 AM PST

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                •  Beclowning. Funny. What I'm saying is that (0+ / 0-)

                  I have no reason to believe Obama is undercutting SS, he's had many opportunities to do so and somehow didn't grasp them.  That makes me stop and think when THIS month's tempest flares up, that's all.  No one has answered this question, which I ask every time I'm entreated to light my hair on fire about SS or Medicare: when in the last 4 years were the Serious Thinkers right about Obama's plan to gut the safety net?

                    Can you point to one instance where Medicare was slashed by Obamacare?  (that was the claim).  Can you tell me how my SS benefits have shrunk since DINO Obama sneaked into power?  

                  Who exactly is blocking the desperately needed Medicaid expansion that Obama slipped into the ACA?  Is it True Progressives who see it as the slippery slope to something something or is it Republicans who know they're totally fucked on Government is Bad once Obamacare starts changing the ridiculously expensive and inept private health system?    

                  I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

                  by I love OCD on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 10:30:13 AM PST

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                  •  He said what he said about Chained CPI... (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Capt Crunch

                    ...it's on the table, direct from the President himself as recently as two weeks ago. Pelosi herself pushed Chained CPI as a way to make SS stronger. These things are not delusions.

                    it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

                    by Addison on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 10:38:22 AM PST

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                    •  Avoiding the question. (0+ / 0-)

                      When did Medicare, Medicaid, or SS get cut on Obama's watch?  Which time?  

                      I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

                      by I love OCD on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 02:53:03 PM PST

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                  •  Here's a reason to think he's in favor of cutting (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    PorridgeGun
                    "PRESIDENT OBAMA: ...but I already have, David, as you know, one of the proposals we made was something called Chain CPI, "
                    This is from his most recent appearance on the Sunday talk shows.
                    I would say Obama's own words are a pretty good reason.
                    •  He's also said he was open to (0+ / 0-)

                      budget cuts.  And he's cut the budget by making government more efficient and less open to fraud.  Not by cutting services to the most needy.  What no one seems to get is he says things that sucker Republicans into revealing THEIR nefarious plans, and sneaks stimulus funding into the bargain WITHOUT CUTTING THE SAFETY NET.  Yes I'm yelling.  It. Hasn't. Happened.  EVER.  One entire term and paranoia still reigns, common sense is out the window.

                      I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

                      by I love OCD on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 02:44:51 PM PST

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                      •  Oh geeze - the chess master excuse again. (0+ / 0-)
                        What no one seems to get is he says things that sucker Republicans into revealing THEIR nefarious plans, and sneaks stimulus funding into the bargain WITHOUT CUTTING THE SAFETY NET.
                        The first stimulus was waaaay inadequate becasue Obama started the negotiations to the right of where he should have ended up. The 2010 election results were dismal in large part  because the economy was much less improved than it should have been - because of Obama's flaccid stimulus.
                        He only got RomneyCare passed because he, once again, was trying to appease the Republicans by offering their healthcare plan as a starting point.
                        Neither one of those were the work of some genius strategist. They were stupid moves. And they caused the general public massive pain and suffering.
                        He is not some genius.
                        He is not a saint.
                        He is not a hero.
                        He's just another guy in the White House that made some stupid mistakes in his first term and is finally starting to learn.
          •  D and R leaders both want chained CPI (0+ / 0-)

            but neither wants to be blamed for it.  That's why this latest strategy (behind closed door "emergency" budget battles) may present them with an opportunity to cut SS and Medicare without taking the blame.

            Yes, cuts to SS will increase the cost of other programs, likely higher costs for food stamps, home heating assistance, subsidized housing, etc.  Seniors whose benefits are cut will have to rely more on government programs to meet basic needs for food, shelter, etc.  

            Raising the retirement age will also result in higher costs for other things like unemployment insurance.  

            Democratic Leaders must be very clear they stand with the working class of our country. Democrats must hold the line in demanding that deficit reduction is done fairly -- not on the backs of the elderly, the sick, children and the poor.

            by Betty Pinson on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 10:01:36 AM PST

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            •  And all of these things will happen (0+ / 0-)

              because Obama was just waiting for his second term before doing what he really wanted to do.  Right.  And Death Panels.  You forgot death panels.

              I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

              by I love OCD on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 10:33:59 AM PST

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              •  He's been very public in his support (0+ / 0-)

                for Chained CPI.  

                He hasn't tried to hide it.  He recently touted it on MTP  

                Unfortunately, the voting public hasn't jumped on board that bandwagon.  Neither has the GOP, at least not publicly.

                I can't read his mind, but Obama hasn't come out publicly with a retraction of his support for cutting SS benefits.  Perhaps his team is still considering new marketing efforts to gain public support (pitting young voters against seniors hasn't worked very well), or perhaps they're willing to play along with the GOP and accomplish the cuts behind closed doors in a budget "emergency" bill.

                We'll just have to wait and see.  But Obama has yet to publicly renounce his support for cutting SS or Medicare benefits.

                Democratic Leaders must be very clear they stand with the working class of our country. Democrats must hold the line in demanding that deficit reduction is done fairly -- not on the backs of the elderly, the sick, children and the poor.

                by Betty Pinson on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 11:06:50 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  The chained CPI proposal (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            I love OCD

            was supposed to have protection built into it for the poor and the oldest recipients.

            Somehow, this aspect of the proposal doesn't get publicized.

            •  elmo, it's not even a proposal yet. (0+ / 0-)

              It's nothing yet, but there are people here who are convinced Obama owns stock in the catfood companies people will be relying on one he's destroyed everything he stands for!  OK a slight exaggeration, but CT does that to me.

              I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

              by I love OCD on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 10:38:02 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  It is a proposal and Obama made it. (0+ / 0-)
                PRESIDENT OBAMA: ...but I already have, David, as you know, one of the proposals we made was something called Chain CPI,
                Geeze - does he have to have it tattooed on his forehead before people get the message?
                •  is it in Bill form? Has it been voted on? (0+ / 0-)

                  Has it been signed into law?  If so, someone needs to send me money NOW because I'm already on the edge.  

                  What if chained CPI means benefits go up more because current COLA isn't keeping up with real cost of living increases.  Maybe we chain it to gas prices or food prices.  

                  I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

                  by I love OCD on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 02:58:50 PM PST

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                  •  You are not well informed. (0+ / 0-)
                    Has it been signed into law?
                    Here's how the world works - if the bill has been signed into law it's waaaaay to late to do anything about it. The time to speak up is before it becomes law.
                    What if chained CPI means benefits go up more because current COLA isn't keeping up with real cost of living increases.
                    It doesn't.
                    It cuts benefits.
                    That's another place you need to do some research.
    •  It's a fig leaf designed to conceal (0+ / 0-)

      the white flag of surrender. The budget idea is a sop to their fevered frothing base. They'll be fooled...but no one else.

      •  They aren't surrendering. They are delaying. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Capt Crunch

        And this plan likely won't even work because Obama and Pelosi are against it (since it's not a "clean" bill).

        it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

        by Addison on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 10:39:28 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

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