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  •  Just a few observations: (20+ / 0-)

    Suicide is one of my areas of specialty.  I have a three hour doctoral level course I teach on the subject of Thanatology (the study of death and dying).  I have been close to many who committed suicide, which includes both family members and friends.  I have probably seen more dead bodies than anyone who frequents this site, with the exception of my friend labwitchy.

    There is one great truth that seems to be overlooked in all the heat and fury of people trying to defend emotionally entrenched positions.  If someone intends to commit suicide you cannot stop them.  If one means is not present they will use another.  One of the most recent involves our own beloved Translator.  He committed suicide one week ago today.  Yes, he used a gun.  However, Dave knew more ways to kill a person with stuff he could find under your sink or in a vacant lot than the average person could even begin to imagine with actual weapons.  He was a biochemist, and when he worked for the Army, his specialty was chemical and biological warfare agents.  He was also an anatomist who knew the most painless and quick way to get it over with was a bullet through the brainstem.  Most people don't even know where their brainstem is.

    Of all the suicides I have seen that used a firearm, I have never seen one that used more than one bullet or shotgun round.  None of the proposed firearms on anyone's ban list includes single shot weapons.  

    When firearms are removed from a person's possession, the next step is usually overdose or hanging.  That is why we hear of so many jailhouse hangings with bedsheets.  They are suicidal, and only have access to bedsheets.  

    The main points of Gerri's argument is the dismal failure of the mental health system to address the issue.  Last night the IGTNT diary told the story of Dr. Peter Linnerooth (Captain, US Army, Ret).  Dr. Linnerooth, age 42, of Minneapolis, Minnesota was a clinical psychologist who treated PTSD patients, and was finally overwhelmed by the task.  He took his own life.  He had published on the subject of psychological burnout among military psychologists.  

    Mental health treatment in this country is a joke.  There are many questions about psychiatric medications.  Did they commit suicide because they were on antidepressants, or did they do it because they needed the antidepressants and were taking a sub-therapeutic dose?  When they are dead, we never know.  Approximately 15% of depressed people do not respond to any antidepressant.  Did the deceased fall into that 15%?

    When you want to make this about guns, keep in mind.  If somebody wants to kill themselves, they will find a way.  Unless you truly understand depression, you will not understand desperation to escape the pain.

    A top to bottom reform of mental health services in this country is needed, starting with making it easier for mental health professionals to get paid enough to live on.  Many managed care operations limit a patient to six visits a year with a psychologist or psychiatrist.  What the hell is that about?  It is about saving the Benjamins so the CEO can have his mansion(s) and private jet.  Fuck the patient.  If they kill themselves, it saves the insurance company money.

    Then there is the matter of the private prison-industrial complex.  Does any rational person believe the people who own the private prisons have any motive to decrease crime by eliminating stupid and draconian drug laws?  Who owns these operations?  The wealthy class, who get wealthier by keeping a vast number of people locked up as long as possible.  

    I could go on for a while longer, but this comment is already a diary by itself, and I need another cup of coffee to clear the cobwebs.  As I said, I was up until after three this morning, and got up at six, so I am tired.  When I am tired, my tolerance for BS goes way down.

    The general who wins the battle makes many calculations in his temple before the battle is fought. The general who loses makes but few calculations beforehand. - Sun Tzu

    by Otteray Scribe on Sun Jan 27, 2013 at 08:52:09 AM PST

    •  You make a lot of valid points here (9+ / 0-)

      worthy of discussion....I think you should write a diary. However, I have to disagree with this:

       If someone intends to commit suicide you cannot stop them.  If one means is not present they will use another.  One of the most recent involves our own beloved Translator.  He committed suicide one week ago today.  Yes, he used a gun.  However, Dave knew more ways to kill a person with stuff he could find under your sink or in a vacant lot than the average person could even begin to imagine with actual weapons.  He was a biochemist, and when he worked for the Army, his specialty was chemical and biological warfare agents.  He was also an anatomist who knew the most painless and quick way to get it over with was a bullet through the brainstem.  Most people don't even know where their brainstem is.

      Of all the suicides I have seen that used a firearm, I have never seen one that used more than one bullet or shotgun round.  None of the proposed firearms on anyone's ban list includes single shot weapons.  

      When firearms are removed from a person's possession, the next step is usually overdose or hanging.  That is why we hear of so many jailhouse hangings with bedsheets.  They are suicidal, and only have access to bedsheets.  

       Speaking from personal experience, I attempted suicide when I was 16 by overdose of prescription medication-a combination of them, in an amount that was more than enough to kill me. I was unsuccessful because  I became violently ill and threw up most of it before my body had a chance to absorb it. I very much wanted to die, and if I had a gun I would have used it. I considered hanging myself, but the thought of a prolonged and painful death by strangulation was too scary to me.

      People who want to die are more likely to use firearms than any other method, as I'm sure you know. I think this is largely because people rationalize that pulling a trigger is a relatively passive action, and death is almost instant and therefore painless. It doesn't require preparation and planning in the way that other methods do-that means less time to think about it, less time to change your mind, less time to possibly be talked out of it.

      It is easier to kill another person with a gun for many of the same reasons. It is a relatively passive and detached way to kill someone, and there is less of a psychological barrier to overcome.

      You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

      by SwedishJewfish on Sun Jan 27, 2013 at 09:35:30 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  It is good to see you here again. (12+ / 0-)

        I missed you.  You are correct on the aborted suicides.  However, I think one of the most salient points is that no legislation being currently proposed to curtail gun violence addresses the simple fact none of the proposals would limit single shot weapons.  For example, I have a .50 caliber black powder Hawken rifle that is more than twice as powerful as a round from an AK-47.  It is a muzzle loading weapon....one round at a time.  I also have a single shot .20 gauge shotgun I inherited that is perfectly capable of blowing one's head off.  It is designed for squirrel or rabbit hunting.  

        I think the issue most needed is a serious discussion of mental health care and the desperation of people for whom the pain is far too great to contemplate living.  Do you know there is not a single psychiatrist in our area that takes insurance with the exception of the handful of doctors at the mental health center?  And it is easier to get into Fort Knox than to make it through all the firewalls of under-trained case workers who are charged with determining if you really need to see the psychiatrist.   Additionally, last time I checked, the 44-million-dollar-a-year mental health center operation only has one doctoral level clinical psychologist working there.  They serve twelve counties.

        The general who wins the battle makes many calculations in his temple before the battle is fought. The general who loses makes but few calculations beforehand. - Sun Tzu

        by Otteray Scribe on Sun Jan 27, 2013 at 09:49:00 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Even at a paper target (10+ / 0-)

        squeezing a trigger is a serious exercise. Nothing passive about it.

        The suicide issue is very close to me as well. From life experience, I am inclined to agree with OS that a suicidal person will find a way.

        A gun doesn't create the impulse or feed the compulsion.

        •  Compared to other methods (7+ / 0-)

          it is passive. Compared to stabbing someone to death, or strangling them, or beating them with a blunt object...compared to other methods of suicide as well.

          I never said the gun created the impulse-but I would argue that it does make it easier to kill impulsively.

          You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

          by SwedishJewfish on Sun Jan 27, 2013 at 11:42:13 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Squeezing (5+ / 0-)

            a trigger, in particular when one has done so before and understands the implications and results of that action, is not a passive action. I wouldn't think it would be easy to do that to oneself. Of course, there are those that call suicide the "easy" way out in general. That bothers me.

            "Easier" suicide? No, I can't go there logically. Comparing is a pretty common denial pattern, though. It gets around the problem by minimizing it. I've done that myself.

            The action, the actual attempt, is going to happen every time in the presence of the compulsion and the impulse. A suicide (or the attempt) is a symptom. The tools are as varied as the people who take the action.

            At least, that is the understanding that I have come to, listening and learning from people who are a lot smarter and more experienced than I am. I have yet to hear a persuasive argument otherwise.

            •  Again, I'm not saying it is a passive action (10+ / 0-)

              in and of itself...I'm saying comparatively. To put a finer point on it (TRIGGER WARNING) if you want to hang yourself, you have to make the noose, find a place to hang it, get on a high surface (or chair), put the noose around your neck, then jump from that surface, or kick the chair away, knowing that the result will probably be a prolonged and painful death by asphyxiation.

              Compare that to loading a gun, putting it to your head and pulling the trigger-knowing that the result will be instant and painless death.

              I am not minimizing any method of suicide. They are all potentially lethal, and they should all be taken seriously. But firearms are the most lethal method of committing suicide, and the most common method by which people commit suicide in the U.S:

              Lethality of firearms relative to other suicide methods: a population based study

              Results: From January 1990 to December 1997, among individuals 10 years or older in the state of Illinois, there were 37 352 hospital admissions for para-suicide and 10 287 completed suicides. Firearms are the most lethal suicide method. Episodes involving firearms are 2.6 times (95% CI 2.1 to 3.1) more lethal than those involving suffocation—the second most lethal suicide method. Preventing access to firearms can reduce the proportion of fatal firearms related suicides by 32% among minors, and 6.5% among adults.

              Conclusions: Limiting access to firearms is a potentially effective means of reducing suicide mortality.

              There is also quite a body of evidence that suggests that the "success" of a suicide attempt has very little to do with the individuals urge or intent to die, and is actually more correlated to the method used than any other factor:

              Harvard School of Public Health: [Suicide] Method Choice and Intent

              Intent is a complex matter and falls along a continuum. While some attempters are probably at the low end of the spectrum with very little intent to die, and others are at the high end, many fall into an ambivalent middle ground. Still others have high intent but only during very brief episodes. It is these latter two groups for whom reducing easy access to highly lethal methods of suicide is likely to be most effective in saving lives.
              NYT-The Urge to End It All
              Put simply, those methods that require forethought or exertion on the actor’s part (taking an overdose of pills, say, or cutting your wrists), and thus most strongly suggest premeditation, happen to be the methods with the least chance of “success.” Conversely, those methods that require the least effort or planning (shooting yourself, jumping from a precipice) happen to be the deadliest. The natural inference, then, is that the person who best fits the classic definition of “being suicidal” might actually be safer than one acting in the heat of the moment — at least 40 times safer in the case of someone opting for an overdose of pills over shooting himself.

              As illogical as this might seem, it is a phenomenon confirmed by research. According to statistics collected by the Injury Control Research Center on nearly 4,000 suicides across the United States, those who had killed themselves with firearms — by far the most lethal common method of suicide — had a markedly lower history of depression, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, previous suicide attempts or drug or alcohol abuse than those who died by the least lethal methods. On the flip side, those who ranked the highest for at-risk factors tended to choose those methods with low “success” rates.

              You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

              by SwedishJewfish on Sun Jan 27, 2013 at 12:33:23 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I wish getting rid of all the guns (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                gerrilea, notrouble

                was the solution. I also endorse getting rid of tools that can be utilized in suicide and getting them away from anyone who is at risk.

                But, getting rid of the guns doesn't solve the problem, sadly. And suicide by other methods is of no benefit to society.

                Please take a moment to click through this link. It is a really good read.

                Here's your Harvard study:

                F. Geographic Comparisons: Gun Ownership and Suicide Rates
                The mantra more guns equal more death and fewer guns equal
                less death is also used to argue that “limiting access to firearms
                could prevent many suicides.”141 Once again, this assertion is directly contradicted by the studies of 36 and 21 nations (respectively)
                which find no statistical relationship. Overall suicide rates
                were no worse in nations with many firearms than in those where
                firearms were far less widespread.142
                Consider the data about European nations in Tables 5 and 6.
                Sweden, with over twice as much gun ownership as neighboring
                Germany and a third more gun suicide, nevertheless has the lower
                overall suicide rate. Greece has nearly three times more gun ownership
                than the Czech Republic and somewhat more gun suicide,
                yet the overall Czech suicide rate is over 175% higher than the
                Greek rate. Spain has over 12 times more gun ownership than Poland,
                yet the latter’s overall suicide rate is more than double the
                former’s. Tragically, Finland has over 14 times more gun ownership
                than neighboring Estonia, and a great deal more gun‐related
                suicide. Estonia, however, turns out to have a much higher suicide
                rate than Finland overall.
                There is simply no relationship evident between the extent of
                suicide and the extent of gun ownership. People do not commit
                suicide because they have guns available. In the absence of firearms,
                people who are inclined to commit suicide kill themselves
                some other way.143 Two examples seem as pertinent as they are
                poignant. The first concerns the 1980s increase in suicide among
                young American males, an increase that, although relatively modest,
                inspired perfervid denunciations of gun ownership.144 What
                these denunciations failed to mention was that suicide of teenagers
                and young adults was increasing throughout the entire industrialized
                world, regardless of gun availability, and often much more
                rapidly than in the United States. The only unusual aspect of suicide
                in the United States was that it involved guns. The irrelevancy
                of guns to the increase in American suicide is evident because suicide
                among English youth actually increased 10 times more sharply, with “car exhaust poisoning [being] the method of suicide
                used most often.”145 By omitting such facts, the articles blaming
                guns for increasing American suicide evaded the inconvenience of
                having to explain exactly what social benefit nations with few guns
                received from having their youth suicides occur in other ways.
                •  Sorry but that isn't a study (5+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  a2nite, gerrilea, tytalus, 43north, lyvwyr101

                  it is an article, published in a student-edited publication and not subject to peer review. It has been widely discredited. It's authors are Don Kates, a 2nd Amendment lawyer who works for the NRA, and Gary Mauser is also a paid NRA consultant. They are the gun lobby's version of climate change denial "scientists"

                  You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

                  by SwedishJewfish on Sun Jan 27, 2013 at 02:07:34 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  How can you ignore the data? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    gerrilea

                    The underlying data? Data self reported and published by the individual countries?

                    Anyway, I think we are arguing at cross purposes. I want the problem of suicides and mental health addressed in our population. You appear to want a gun control. I don't think we are going to see eye to eye on this.

                    I'm going to continue to address mental health problems in a causal manner. I'm going to ask my elected representatives to do the same.

                    It's real and it's true.

                    * Don B. Kates (LL.B., Yale, 1966) is an American criminologist and constitutional
                    lawyer associated with the Pacific Research Institute, San Francisco. He may be contacted
                    at dbkates@earthlink.net; 360‐666‐2688; 22608 N.E. 269th Ave., Battle Ground,
                    WA 98604.
                    ** Gary Mauser (Ph.D., University of California, Irvine, 1970) is a Canadian criminologist
                    and university professor at Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, BC Canada.
                    He may be contacted at www.garymauser.net, mauser@sfu.ca, and 604‐291‐3652.
                    We gratefully acknowledge the generous contributions of Professor Thomas B. Cole
                    (University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, Social Medicine and Epidemiology);
                    Chief Superintendent Colin Greenwood (West Yorkshire Constabulary, ret.); C.B.
                    Kates; Abigail Kohn (University of Sydney, Law); David B. Kopel (Independence
                    Institute); Professor Timothy D. Lytton (Albany Law School); Professor William
                    Alex Pridemore (University of Oklahoma, Sociology); Professor Randolph Roth
                    (Ohio State University, History); Professor Thomas Velk (McGill University, Economics
                    and Chairman of the North American Studies Program); Professor Robert
                    Weisberg (Stanford Law School); and John Whitley (University of Adelaide, Economics).
                    Any merits of this paper reflect their advice and contributions; errors are
                    entirely ours.
                    http://en.wikipedia.org/...
                    Joyce Malcolm reviewed of the subject of crime rates and homicides in England[17] and found that, "data on firearms ownership by constabulary area,” like data from the United States, show, “a negative correlation...[that is], where firearms are most dense violent crime rates are lowest, and where guns are least dense violent crime rates are highest."

                    A 1990 study by Rich et al. on suicide rates in Toronto and Ontario and psychiatric patients from San Diego reached the conclusion that increased gun restrictions, while reducing suicide-by-gun, resulted in no net decline in suicides, because of substitution of another method—namely leaping.[18] Killias argues against the theory of complete substitution, citing a number of studies that have demonstrated, in his view, "rather convincingly", that suicide candidates do not consistently turn to other means of suicide if their preferred means is not at hand.[14] A more extensive study published in 1993, however, covering far more areas and controlling for the effects of many other gun laws, found that gun control laws generally have no detectable effect on total suicide rates.[19]

                    •  Because that study has been widely discredited (4+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      tytalus, 43north, gerrilea, lyvwyr101

                      I don't refute the data, I refute the conclusions drawn from that data because they are absurd.

                      The quoted stuff you are using as proof...one of those studies is from yet another NRA lawyer:

                      Joyce Malcom-"Next Generation Scholar" for the NRA's Civil Defense fund

                      The other one uses data from the 1980's, and IMO the methodology is flawed. They use data from two major cities. Urban areas not only have lower rates of gun ownership, they have an abundance of high-rise structures from which to jump. Not a good representative sample, IMO.

                      Anyways, there are numerous current, peer reviewed studies that show a direct correlation between firearm ownership and suicide rates, but I'm not going to go back and forth with you on this. You can believe what you want. As for this though?

                      Anyway, I think we are arguing at cross purposes. I want the problem of suicides and mental health addressed in our population. You appear to want a gun control.
                      You don't seem to get it. I want both.

                      You aren't the only person here who has been personally affected by this issue.

                      You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

                      by SwedishJewfish on Sun Jan 27, 2013 at 04:13:06 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                •  We haven't tried to get rid of guns (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  SwedishJewfish, lyvwyr101

                  Because the gun makers/NRA don't want to collect the data. We are flying blind. Too many people benefit from the gun glut.

                  Where's the data?

                  It also doesn't help that the gun over people party is really loud & bi-partisan & over represented, IMO.

                  •  Do we need a committee to analyze the (0+ / 0-)

                    total number of suicides and their ever increasing rate?

                    Take the NRA and the gun out of the picture and we're still left with thousands of deaths.  How many without a gun will go on to find other methods is debatable but it doesn't address the underlying cause, 600,000 Americans try to kill themselves each and every year and that's the low end estimate I provided.

                    Despair and poverty can be addressed immediately, won't divide this nation even further, won't take amending the constitution, won't take anything but true leadership and commitment to help us all evolve into a peaceful more productive society.

                    Then who's going to want or "need" a gun then?  

                    We have to address the media's role in depicting violence as cool and glorious.

                    -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                    by gerrilea on Sun Jan 27, 2013 at 10:56:50 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

              •  OK, now you have gone and done it. (9+ / 0-)

                I don't write many diaries, but I think I will have to do one on the suicide matrix.  Think of an X and Y axis chart.  On the vertical axis we have intent.  On the horizontal axis we have lethality.  You can pretty much draw a line from the top right corner to the lower left corner to partial out just how serious the suspected suicide attempt is.  To the left of the line is the person who may not really want to die and the attempt is a cry for help.  To the right of the line are those who really intend to die and resist any attempt to save them.

                The mildest would be somebody who walks into the living room, announces they are going to end it all and takes a dozen Valium.  On the other end of the spectrum is the person who goes out in the woods, puts the muzzle of a shotgun in their mouth and pulls the trigger.  

                We have to think of a spectrum of lethality.  Mildest is the attempt that ranges from sometimes or even seldom fatal to always fatal.  Intent is based on whether the attempt is likely to be interrupted to no chance at all of being interrupted.  

                The general who wins the battle makes many calculations in his temple before the battle is fought. The general who loses makes but few calculations beforehand. - Sun Tzu

                by Otteray Scribe on Sun Jan 27, 2013 at 01:19:54 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Looking forward (7+ / 0-)

                  to reading that one.

                  •  The saddest thing in the source (6+ / 0-)

                    you cited is this:

                    Two examples seem as pertinent as they are
                    poignant. The first concerns the 1980s increase in suicide among young American males, an increase that, although relatively modest, inspired perfervid denunciations of gun ownership. What these denunciations failed to mention was that suicide of teenagers and young adults was increasing throughout the entire industrialized world, regardless of gun availability, and often much more rapidly than in the United States. The only unusual aspect of suicide in the United States was that it involved guns. The irrelevancy of guns to the increase in American suicide is evident because suicide among English youth actually increased 10 times more sharply, with “car exhaust poisoning [being] the method of suicide used most often."
                    Having spent some years in my life dealing with at-risk and adjudicated teens, and having adopted three siblings after their mother committed suicide, I've seen some serious hopelessness in the shadows of our oh so modern and supposedly 'civilized' society. Kids quickly approaching adulthood who feel that there is no future for them to look forward to. Adults who come to that realization late, but no less tragically for that.

                    They instituted the ultimate edition of "No Future" before I was born, and that was the explicit threat by government to murder everyone - all of us, themselves included - to "protect and defend" our erstwhile "way of life." How absurd is that? To get past it, I had to muster some serious anti-oligarchic gumption during the Cuban Missile Crisis. "Drop It Or Shut The Fuck Up" is basically how I faced the fear down within myself. I realized over a period of three days that they never actually planned to kill us all in the first place. They were just drinking the fear, so I stopped being afraid.

                    Now the astoundingly lucrative 40-year Cold War is over, the threat arises from an even more shadowy and suspicious threat. Threats are all they've got to justify their abuses of power, so they're never going to Shut The Fuck Up. There is no future. Too many people believe it today, and for too many people today, it's true.

                    •  Thank you, exactly what I had hoped people (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Joieau, fuzzyguy

                      would understand.  Seems you were way ahead of me even.

                      I understood that with the manufactured fears of the Soviet threat Reagan brought to the table.

                      They weren't going to kill us and we weren't going to kill them, on that last part I could only hope though...wasn't truly sure for a time there with all the saber rattling.

                      One of my professors on Russian History that just happened once to be a CIA "agent" in the Soviet Union made it clear we had to get through the next 17 years without a global war (it was 1983). If achieved, the rest would be slow peaceful deescalation.  I guess he didn't surmise GW's resource wars though.

                      -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                      by gerrilea on Sun Jan 27, 2013 at 11:06:06 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                •  Awesome (8+ / 0-)

                  that was all part of my evil plan! But really, I look forward to reading it.

                  Do you think we can actually have a substantive conversation on this topic without resorting to name calling and bickering? Wouldn't that be something :O

                  You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

                  by SwedishJewfish on Sun Jan 27, 2013 at 01:43:06 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Hey, the last one's from my diary. It revealed (4+ / 0-)

                for me a framing that denies us honest discussion that will lead us to legitimate solutions, imo.

                -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                by gerrilea on Sun Jan 27, 2013 at 03:04:59 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  Thank you for the respectful and insightful (5+ / 0-)

            responses and thank you for actually reading my diary.

            I never said the gun created the impulse-but I would argue that it does make it easier to kill impulsively.
            It does make it easier and the "impulse" I believe is caused first by despair then spreads and spread into a way of life.

            -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

            by gerrilea on Sun Jan 27, 2013 at 03:02:08 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  OS, thank you and If I could hug you I would (9+ / 0-)

      When I get tired and frustrated I don't say what I'm thinking.

      YOU JUST DID FOR ME.

      If someone intends to commit suicide you cannot stop them.
      I know all too well that reality very personally.  Having attempted suicide twice, the second time I was dead for almost 8 minutes and woke up 3 days later in the hospital and you know what my first thoughts were?

      "Damn, the ***king bridge wasn't high enough"!

      No one in my family knew, they thought I got mugged or something and pushed over the bridge on my way back to the College Dorms.  I had to play along, so as to not raise any suspicions and then I found a book about a month later in the College Library on transsexuals, my lifelong fear, self loathing and pure hatred ended.  I had a legitimate path forward.

      Thank you again for sharing such intimate and painful details with us all.

      -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

      by gerrilea on Sun Jan 27, 2013 at 10:42:58 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

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