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View Diary: Why the "Styling" of Assault Weapons Matters: Think Baseball Bats (30 comments)

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  •  The Baseline Problem Nobody Addresses (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Deward Hastings, BlackSheep1, ancblu

    I can tell you in a nutshell why any meaningful gun control is almost certainly doomed to failure.

    Gun folks don't trust those who want gun control. They are absolutely convinced that if they give up ANYTHING it is merely the start, and that the "gun grabbers" would immediately be back for more, and they are probably right.

    Taking magazine capacity as an example, IF magazines were limited to ten rounds (is that new manufacture or does it include existing equipment, because making it retroactive would represent a "taking" under the Constitution and the Government would have to buy them all), then as soon as some nutjob killed 15 people at a daycare center by changing magazines the call would be to limit magazines to 5.

    Just look at the microcosm of DailyKos. Some here want "assault weapons" banned and confiscated, some want all semiautomatic rifles B&C, some want all semiautomatic ANYTHING B&C, some want all handguns...

    From the gun folks' viewpoint, if the Assault Weapon Banners get their way, the Semiautomatic Banners will just step up to be next in line, and there's no stopping point.

    Until some way is found to get that issue resolved I don't expect anything meaningful to happen.

    Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.

    by The Baculum King on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 10:49:46 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  I'll just quote (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Baculum King, BlackSheep1, ancblu

      three of my previous comments (in other threads) . . .

      Slippery slope

      Most of the gun owners that I know think that the AR-15/AK-47/TEC-9  crowd are simply nuts . . . but will (reluctantly) defend them because they don't believe that "gun control" advocates intend to stop there . . .

      Collective punishment

      The single most common objection that I hear from (particularly rural) gun owners is "you want to take my rifle because of what somebody else did (on the other side of the Country, to boot)?  Are you crazy ? ? ?"

      Address the real problem

      If you can figure out a way to get guns out of the hands of criminals before you try to get them out of the hands of the law abiding the remaining "details" of gun control will be a cakewalk.

      Doing it the other way around produces the resistance you see now . . .

      Fake Left, Drive Right . . . not my idea of a Democrat . . .

      by Deward Hastings on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 11:09:10 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  On What Point Are They Wrong? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BlackSheep1, ancblu, Neuroptimalian

        And there's a WIDE spectrum of people who own and use "black" rifles, and most of them aren't particularly nuts. The nuts just get the publicity by walking around town with them.

        Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.

        by The Baculum King on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 11:12:52 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I suspect that almost all the sane ones (0+ / 0-)

          don't find the pistol grip all that useful, and would accept the following (which I've never seen proposed before, although I'm sure it's been thought of) "modification":

          A magazine guard perminantly fixed to the gun that loops under the magazine and locks the trigger mechanism when open.  The essential functions would be:

          1) to prevent operation of the firearm after the insertion of "oversize" or "high capacity" magazines, and

          2) to slow, by adding an additional operational step, the exchange of full for spent magazines.  

          Fake Left, Drive Right . . . not my idea of a Democrat . . .

          by Deward Hastings on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 11:36:56 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  So how do we stop the (0+ / 0-)

          nuts from being able to legally intimidate us, such as the recent idiot in Utah?

          Severely Socialist

          by ichibon on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 11:41:40 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  I concur about #2 and #3 ... (0+ / 0-)

        but #1 is not my experience.  

        Owners all have their distinct preferences in choice of firearm and cartidge for x intended use or purpose ... and much debate, both pissy and friendly, occurs around this inevitable and always present question.

        However, as a near constant (and really only with the exceptions here on DK by admitted owners/control advocates), most other owners/rights advocates outside this cloistered progressive world feel pretty strongly that one's particular choice is part of the bigger "Right" and would defend another's choice (however suitable or misguided that choice might be in one's own better judgment).

    •  It doesn't matter what they don't trust (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Boreal Ecologist

      It doesn't matter who they or you trust. It doesn't matter what you think. All that matters is whether we can get a majority in various legislatures, and eventually in Congress.

      Because of the recent school massacres, a majority of voters now support increasing gun regulation. That is primarily on manufacture and sale of new weapons.

      If people have certain delusional ideas that this is gun grabbing, it won't matter because they will be overruled in the democratic process and hopefully eventually calm down when they realize they were suffering from delusions of the slippery slope.

      •  I Don't Think So (3+ / 0-)

        Without some compromise, nothing with any meaning will be enacted. Even a revival of the largely useless AWB is pretty iffy at this point, and anything more simply won't pass.

        And even if some way was found to ram something through, the damage caused by the Resulting Republican majority in both Houses would FAR outweigh anything that was gained.

        And the bottom line is nothing would change in any case: criminals will still be as armed as they wish to be and deranged people who decide their life and death will acquire meaning ONLY by killing a bunch of innocents will kill a bunch of innocents on the way out.

        Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.

        by The Baculum King on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 12:05:13 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  The Baculum King: Absolutely. I've been told here (3+ / 0-)

      at DKos within the last 10 days that the banners need to proceed in just exactly the same fashion as the anti-choicers have chipped away at women's rights since Roe V. Wade.

      They even used the term, "baby steps."

      At this moment there's an FP diary declaiming that the goal is to eliminate all private ownership of guns.

      LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

      by BlackSheep1 on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 12:27:24 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Would a "taking" of weapons ... (0+ / 0-)

      even be constitutionally permissible?  They wouldn't qualify under eminent domain laws, I wouldn't think.

      "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

      by Neuroptimalian on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 12:01:00 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  No one is proposing "taking" (0+ / 0-)

        What is being proposed is regulating. Strong regulation may make a piece of equipment worthless.

        For example there are some states that take hunting as sport seriously and allow hunters to use magazines with only a few bullets. Suppose state or federal regulation make it illegal to hunt with a magazine of more than say 5 cartridges, illegal to fire a weapon at a practice range with more than 5 cartridges, illegal to carry a weapon in public, or transport it with more than 5 cartridges, and so on.

        If a person has a magazine that can hold 10 cartridges, no one has taken it away, but it has in effect become a worthless piece of junk that he can't attach to his gun except in the privacy of his own home, and this provides pretty strong incentive to toss it in the trash.

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