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View Diary: The three schools of thought regarding guns on Daily Kos. (126 comments)

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  •  So, as a "gun reformer" (4+ / 0-)

    ...you wish to see these models you specify by country.

    Which country's gun laws do you like best?

    Australia:  Firearm laws are enforced at a Federal and State level. Gun ownership is accessible to the civilian population, and those persons must comply with 'genuine reasons' to obtain a 'Permit to Acquire' from their State government. 'Genuine Reasons' focus on either hunting and/or sport/target shooting (for Rifles), and do not include 'personal protection. ... Gun licences must be renewed either annually or every 5 years, and expire automatically (if not renewed prior)
    Canada:  In Canada firearms fall into one of three categories:

    1. Non-Restricted: Long guns with an overall length greater than 26 inches and, if semi-automatic, a barrel which is 18 1/2 inches or longer. These can be possessed with an ordinary PAL (temporary license), and are the only class of firearms which can be used for hunting. This class includes most popular sporting rifles and shotguns.

    2. Restricted: This includes handguns with barrel lengths greater than 4.1 inches (105mm), and long guns which do not meet the length requirements for non-restricted, and are not prohibited. These gun can only be shot at ranges. These arms can be possessed with an RPAL  (restricted temporary license), which is similar to the PAL course, but covers restricted weapons and the increased storage requirements. Examples in this class include all AR-15 variants.

    3. Prohibited: These weapons generally cannot be possessed by civilians. Normally, the only way to possess these is by being grandfathered in or inheriting a pistol with a barrel length at or under 4.1 inches (105mm), in which case the individual may receive the Class 7 endorsement. This class also includes prohibited devices. Many military arms fall under this classification, including all AK variants, and the FN-FAL. All handguns with a barrel length equal to or under 4.1 inches (105mm) are prohibited, as well as those chambered in .25 or .32 caliber cartridges. Also prohibited are fully automatic weapons and suppressors. Magazines for automatic long guns capable of holding more than 5 centerfire cartridges or 10 rounds for handguns, are prohibited.

    Switzerland:  Guns can be possessed only by former active duty soldiers. Switzerland practices universal conscription, which requires that all able-bodied male citizens keep fully automatic firearms at home in case of a call-up. They are not allowed to keep ammunition for these firearms in their homes, however; ammunition is stored at government arsenals.



    Denial is a drug.

    by Pluto on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 01:42:32 PM PST

    •  I kind of like the Swiss model. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      pistolSO, se portland, a2nite

      And to be honest, universal conscription might not be such a bad thing either, especially if the military was used for fewer 'kill brown people' things, and more 'setting up national infrastructure' type projects.  Train all your young people in useful skills for a few years, giving them 'job experience' while creating useful results and gaining allies abroad because we're improving their lives, rather than ending them.

    •  I was being general and didn't quite know the (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Pluto, a2nite, Ahianne

      details.   Personally, I like Canada's laws the best since it seems the most balanced, but I don't ever see the US banning handguns to the degree that Canada does.

      I know that I don't like that there is no "personal protection" reason for Australia, but otherwise Australia has a lot to teach us.   I would definitely try for the " Gun licences must be renewed either annually or every 5 years, and expire automatically (if not renewed prior)" part of Australian laws.

      Switzerland has an interesting approach but I don't see how it can be practically converted to the US although the idea of ammunition control certainly has merit.

      Thanks for the information, Pluto.   I was more thinking in general terms and not saying that a particular nation's laws are the goal for a group, just a general direction.

      Washington and Colorado said that you've got to legalize it. Hope the DOJ respects that.

      by pistolSO on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 01:54:35 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I would tend to think that 'hunting' covers the (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        pistolSO, Pluto, a2nite

        'personal protection' angle for those living where dingos and crocodiles roam.  You might not be deliberately hunting them, but you might need to be able to fend them off.

        •  Especially if you live in a highrise ;-) (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          koNko

          Dingos and crocs have been found on elevators.



          Denial is a drug.

          by Pluto on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 02:18:48 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Back in the day (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Pluto, a2nite

            When I was all up for gun control I got into a "discussion" with the wife of an old friend of mine. I was so sure of my belief that no one needed a gun, that the only just reason was for hunting and even then I wasn't sure we needed to have arms....sometime in the mid to late '80s IIRC.

            She was totally against everything I was saying and got really emotional about it, she told me she had a gun in her purse and it was with her all the time. I was outraged and thought she was insane, at that time she had a young boy and was expecting.

            Back and forth we went. Then she told me about her rape by two guys in the laundry room of her apt. building in Denver. How she laid there keeping her mouth shut while her little baby boy slept in his little carrier near by. She told me her gun was the only thing that got her to go out of her house.

            To my eternal shame I still argued with her, I was so sure I was right.

            Yeah, I think dingos can be in elevators.

            "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

            by high uintas on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 05:56:19 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  In the US (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              high uintas

              ...it's pretty risky not to carry a gun. By the same token, I doubt a gun would have prevented her experience, which could happen anywhere.

              What you are saying is that since her horrific trauma -- a gun is the only thing that lets her go on with her life. It's her talisman.

              I have a friend, a successful brilliant writer, who is incredibly productive -- but only when taking pain killers. He has left the world a far, far better place through his work.

              Bottom line -- whatever gets you through this life in a positive way, is the way to go.



              Denial is a drug.

              by Pluto on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 08:33:46 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  rAmen (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Pluto

                It was her talisman and I thought I was good enough to tell her it was bull shit. I am embarrassed still.

                "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

                by high uintas on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 08:58:00 PM PST

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                •  I've done the same. I'm still ashamed. (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  high uintas, a2nite, blueness

                  There is so much brain damage from the traumas of life. I recently wrote (as yet unpublished) about it:

                  Among modern civilizations that possess a veneer of civilization and enlightenment, only Americans are in the grip of this strong, nearly violent drive to arm themselves. Speaking as a social scientist, this behavior is indicative of an ever-present stress caused by heightened fear or the consistent threat of mortal danger present in the environment -- over a significant length time.

                  Whether or not this incessant threat ever manifests and reveals itself to the individual is immaterial. The human brain does not know the persistent threat might be existential (or externally programmed). It continues evolving and changing (throughout life), now bathed in the juices of vague fears and mistrust. Over time the brain forms new arrays of bio-electrical processes that have adapted to the sensory input that the individual and his society provide on a consistent basis. The feedback loop is engaged, which gives the individual a certain amount of comfort and certainty as he moves through his world.

                  This biological process is neither good nor bad. It simply IS. It is the mechanism of the evolution of consciousness, which is a higher brain process than academic education. for example, It encompasses the biological encoding of religious practice or other spiritual disciplines. It can be encoded with ideological dogma, as well, if fight or flight juices and fear and rage enzymes are bathing the brain consistently during long period of indoctrination. (The enzymes of well-being do not stimulate adaptive evolution in the brain. Sorry.) This is a particular occupational hazard for truck drivers, which was revealed by another study.

                  Anytime the brain bathes consistently in the reactive juices of unique neurotransmitters and endocrine excretions -- caused by consistently applied external stimuli -- from the nurturing to the horrifying -- the brain will change physically and will learn to process input differently. Sometimes an individual is permanently brain-damaged (although functional), as with those who have experienced the American criminal justice system or those who enlisted to go to Iraq or Afghanistan. But they are returned to our midst and we keep our fingers crossed. Many times an individual is provided with exceptional and purposeful nurturing to give him access to all of his gifts, which permanently changes his brain structure. He, too, enters our midst. Collectively, it is our culture.



                  Denial is a drug.

                  by Pluto on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 09:35:41 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  That was awesome Pluto (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Pluto

                    and I have seen the real life impact of what you talk about in my sister who has had many tragic losses, years of shocks and emergencies. She has be hyper adrenalized for years and I'm afraid we are losing her to a dementia that has come from it.

                    "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

                    by high uintas on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 10:07:22 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

            •  Case in point: (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              koNko, blueness, high uintas
              Yeah, I think dingos can be in elevators.
              :::Knock Knock:::



              Denial is a drug.

              by Pluto on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 09:46:20 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  And toilets. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Pluto

            It's a good idea to blast the potty with an AK-47 before approaching the commode.

            What about my Daughter's future?

            by koNko on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 04:15:31 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  I've studied the gun laws (4+ / 0-)

        ...of just about every nation in the world. The laws of New Zealand may be more to your liking.



        Denial is a drug.

        by Pluto on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 02:16:48 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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