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View Diary: Gun Appreciation Day shootings (189 comments)

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  •  It's not just the GOP (6+ / 0-)

    Some people here believe in this shit. I got accused of being a hateful coward for wanting to deprive people of their liberties. Aside from the 2nd amendment being about rights, not liberties, the idea that anyone might put the right to own guns above the right of children to live is simply too creepy for words.

    The feelings that these people have towards guns is beyond bizarre.

    "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

    by kovie on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 06:13:21 PM PST

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    •  A lot of it (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      snowwoman

      is that whole "Get you man-card reissued" macho bullshit.

      The Onion says----scholars have discovered---the Mayan word for "Apocalypse" in fact---translates more accurately as: "Time of pale obese gun monsters."

      by lyvwyr101 on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 06:58:02 PM PST

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      •  I think it's even deeper (5+ / 0-)

        It's about social and cultural identity. They appear to identify their guns with their ancestors, beliefs, values and way of life. Take them away and it's like killing a huge part of them. It has a very Scots-Irish neo-confederate tribalistic feel to it to me. I feel like I've intruded on a backwoods moonshine still with a big ATF tattoo on my forehead and a warrant to take it down.

        "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

        by kovie on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 07:07:13 PM PST

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        •  This is a good analysis. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Thestral, kovie

          It does feel tribal.

          I feel like I've intruded on a backwoods moonshine still with a big ATF tattoo on my forehead and a warrant to take it down.
          So what we're trying to take away from them--then---they feel--is an actual part of their "identity."

          Makes total sense: regardless of appeals to logic---the law---citizenship----you name it...................

          They hang right on to their guns.

          They literally identify with them.

          The Onion says----scholars have discovered---the Mayan word for "Apocalypse" in fact---translates more accurately as: "Time of pale obese gun monsters."

          by lyvwyr101 on Tue Jan 22, 2013 at 05:06:37 AM PST

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          •  They're not the only Americans (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            lyvwyr101

            to view, feel and react this way towards something they clearly care deeply about. Purely in terms of such--and only in terms of such--they're no different from many abortion, gay rights and labor advocates (or, sadly, from many anti-abortion, gay rights and labor advocates). It's truly a "from my cold dead hands!" issue for them. They WOULD literally die on this particular hill, if it came down to it (which I hope and believe it won't come down to).

            We're not going to turn most of them, and it's a waste of time to try. Thing is, I think they represent a distinct minority of gun owners. Certainly most of the more recent "weekend warrior" gun "enthusiast" types for whom this isn't a tribal thing but more of a penis enhancement thing aren't going to the mat on this issue, no matter what they say. And I believe that most gun owners are going to be willing to compromise. It's just this hardcore neo-confederate element that won't bend. But we don't need them to. There simply aren't enough of them to matter, and simply delay the inevitable.

            "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

            by kovie on Tue Jan 22, 2013 at 09:44:18 AM PST

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            •  I hope so. (0+ / 0-)
              There simply aren't enough of them to matter, and simply delay the inevitable.

              The Onion says----scholars have discovered---the Mayan word for "Apocalypse" in fact---translates more accurately as: "Time of pale obese gun monsters."

              by lyvwyr101 on Tue Jan 22, 2013 at 10:15:47 AM PST

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    •  The power of life and death (0+ / 0-)

      combined with fear and rage and the belief that killing the 'other' who threatens me or wants to steals my stuff just seems insane.  The 'right' to kill humans unimpeded by constraints, or  is your right seem pretty indefensible to me. This is not what liberty looks like. What liberty does any human have if they can be killed or shot or even intimidated by a gun that kills them dead? Is this a war? Do we live in a war zone? Maybe so but who is the enemy here? Oh yeah the scary intruders and the terrist's who will kill your family'. Ask me half the country is freakin nuts and everybody being disarmed would be a good thing not a violation of any freedom that's worth having.  

      •  It's a lost cause with these (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        snowwoman, shaharazade

        Take away their guns and you take away their sense of identity and worth. This is about far more than terrorists or robbers or imaginary evildoers. It's how they were brought up and EXACTLY what Obama was talking about in that 2008 speech and how they cling to their guns and religion, because it's all they have. Take their guns away and they no longer know who they are or feel connected to anything. It's not what the guns can do but what they are and mean. I got HRed a bunch of times for calling them mentally ill but I'm now more convinced than ever that that's what they are. Simply nuts. There is no reasoning with them, just as there is no reasoning with wingnuts or religious nuts. We can't reason with them, so we have to sidestep them.

        "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

        by kovie on Mon Jan 21, 2013 at 08:00:29 PM PST

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