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View Diary: Mythbusting the media on the 1994 assault weapons ban (60 comments)

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  •  Politics is won by votes. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ancblu

    Gun control, by virtually anybody's metric, losses votes.

    People seem to forget that elections are won and lost at the margins.
    Although Gun Control means nothing, electorially, on the coasts and in the south, in virtually every swing state, its a net loser.

    40% of Democratic leaning households have a gun in the house.
    If only 1 out of 10 of them switched to GOP, in the swing states, then Obama would have lost Ohio, Wisconsin, Nevada, Iowa, Florida, NH, Penn, Virginia & would have lost in an electoral  landslide to Mitt F-ing Romney....think about that, one of the most charismatic Dem candidates of the past 50 yrs would have lost-and lost badly- to Mitt (47%) Romney.

    As much as many would like to deny it, there is a reason why the Dems haven't touched Gun control in 20 yrs.

    Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

    by FrankRose on Tue Jan 22, 2013 at 11:08:42 AM PST

    •  Three reasons, actually (4+ / 0-)

      the ones you're selling here, there's a name for that.

      “Now, I can imagine the shocking headlines you’ll print tomorrow morning: 'More guns,' you’ll claim, 'are the NRA’s answer to everything!'" -- Wayne LaPierre

      by tytalus on Tue Jan 22, 2013 at 11:16:50 AM PST

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      •  Clinton, Howard Dean & the Dem party at large (0+ / 0-)

        seemed fairly certain about the electoral consequenses.

        There is a reason why the debate about the AWB centers around how much of a negitive impact it had/will be & not how many voters it did/will gain.
        Its a net loser by virtually everybody's metric. The only debate is how much of a loser it is.

        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

        by FrankRose on Tue Jan 22, 2013 at 11:46:46 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, this diary (4+ / 0-)

          specifically addresses the appeal to Clinton (authority). And no, the debate has not been about how much of a negative impact. Nothing so nuanced. That would be an interesting argument, and there's links and data in the diary to consider. Instead, the debate has been this.

          more gun control equals lost elections.
          This diary is intended to put a stop to that extremity.

          “Now, I can imagine the shocking headlines you’ll print tomorrow morning: 'More guns,' you’ll claim, 'are the NRA’s answer to everything!'" -- Wayne LaPierre

          by tytalus on Tue Jan 22, 2013 at 11:59:44 AM PST

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          •  Fair enough. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            meagert

            But I think that's the wrong question, the question should be "does it gain or lose voters".
            I think that the answer to that is a clear 'no', as such it certainly can  led to lost elections.
            What it certainly can't do is win elections.

            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

            by FrankRose on Tue Jan 22, 2013 at 12:18:07 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  or the opposite could be true... (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      luckydog, tytalus, SilentBrook, Miggles
      82% of gun owners support criminal background checks for gun purchasers (74% of NRA members voiced support for background checks).

      Sixty-eight percent of NRA members believe that individuals who have been arrested for domestic violence should not be eligible for gun permits.

      75% of NRA members believe that concealed weapon permits should not be available to people who have committed violent misdemeanors.

      NPR


      We are not broke, we are being robbed.

      by Glen The Plumber on Tue Jan 22, 2013 at 11:23:22 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  But the dems are currently (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        FrankRose

        demanding an assault rifle ban as well.  That is the major rub.  You won't have much push back from expanded background checks.  The moment you ad a ban on semi-auto rifles, you will lose many votes and I happen to be one of those people who you will lose.

        •  you would be in the minority... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TheFern, luckydog, Miggles
          Would you support or oppose banning assault weapons?

          Support    63
          Oppose    32

          Daily Kos/PPP


          We are not broke, we are being robbed.

          by Glen The Plumber on Tue Jan 22, 2013 at 11:51:10 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I don't think you get the point (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            FrankRose

            Banning semi auto rifles will push more repugs to the polls.  It will also remove some dem voters like myself.  The dems in turn won't get more turn out from these laws, they will get less while it will also motivate the republican base in a huge way.

            The fact that an assault rifle ban will do nothing as far as gun violence is concerned means the law is illogical and emotionally based.  Not a good starting point.

          •  Couple of issues (0+ / 0-)

            1) The polls are all over the place on this issue (expected, as this is a debate that hasn't been had for 20 yrs)  I currently can't link, but check out pollingreports aggregate page. For instance CNN has it 55-44.

            2) The question is less 'how many support this issue' and more 'who is willing tovote on this issue.
            This is an issue that creates single-issue voters & virtually every single one of those single issue voters will be against it. There is no demographic that will jump ship in support of the AWB. However, there are demographics that will jump ship in opposition of it.

            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

            by FrankRose on Tue Jan 22, 2013 at 12:04:35 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  You would vote republican (4+ / 0-)

          On behalf of your rifle?

          "Goodnight, thank you, and may your God go with you"

          by TheFern on Tue Jan 22, 2013 at 11:58:57 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I would never vote for a (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            FrankRose

            republican or a democrat that voted to take away my right to own/purchase rifles I do in fact use most weeks.  I have never committed a crime and am a responsible member of society.  To go after guns that create a tiny fraction of actual gun violence means that politician doesn't really care about gun safety.  They really care about taking away guns.  For many years this hasn't been an issue which was great.  It allowed many of us to focus our attention on other issues we care about.  Going after any of our guns is a deal breaker however.

          •  I will not vote for anyone that suppots (0+ / 0-)

            infringing on the liberties of innocent Americans for percieved security.
            I didn't for warrantless wiretaps & I won't for the AWB.

            That, at worst, means I will abstain.....and I have been a strait-dem voter (except for Nader in 2000), in every election.

            But there are people that will vote GOP.
            The only question is how many.

            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

            by FrankRose on Tue Jan 22, 2013 at 12:12:33 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  This is where you lose me. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Glen The Plumber, Miggles

              I understand that this is a big issue for you.  One might say you are a single issue voter when it comes to gun ownership.  "Vote to take my guns away, I will vote against you."  Thing is, the only viable party that doesn't want some gun restrictions is... the republicans.  So if this is your issue, then you are in the wrong party.  
              Of course the republicans come with a bunch of smelly baggage, but when it comes to extending gun rights they're your best shot.  As for your other liberties, well, I guess you roll the dice.  The democrats are coming for the ugly guns. Many people are glad they are.
              You could always go back to voting for noted Pro-Gun advocate Ralph Nader (kidding).

              "Goodnight, thank you, and may your God go with you"

              by TheFern on Tue Jan 22, 2013 at 01:16:37 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  Couple of issues.... (0+ / 0-)

        1) Its the AWB & magazine ban that is the 800 lb gorilla. Even the NRA argues to "enforce the laws on the books" (whether or not they mean it is a seperate issue, but their statements on this are telling). As such the AWB & mag ban will be my focus.

        2) Every long term poll that has surveyed Gun Control since at least 1994, shows that Gun Control is far less popular today than in 1994.

        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

        by FrankRose on Tue Jan 22, 2013 at 11:51:44 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  so says you...the polls say something different. (0+ / 0-)

          n/t.


          We are not broke, we are being robbed.

          by Glen The Plumber on Tue Jan 22, 2013 at 11:54:51 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Um.....no (0+ / 0-)

            Not at all, actually.
            Every long term poll shows less support today than in '94

            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

            by FrankRose on Tue Jan 22, 2013 at 12:06:12 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Every time a maniac shoots up a school (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              tytalus, Glen The Plumber

              or a playground, or a park, or a shopping mall.  That number moves.  Obviously.  This will not go on forever.  Either the gun culture fixes its problem, or the public will.

              "Goodnight, thank you, and may your God go with you"

              by TheFern on Tue Jan 22, 2013 at 01:38:45 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  How is the murderer in any way, shape or form (0+ / 0-)

                the responsibility of innocent people?

                Try this: is there any other group you can say that statement about without diving head first into bigotry or total logical breakdown?

                Would you say "either the phone culture fixes its problem, or the public will" is a viable argument for warrantless wiretaps, in the wake of 9/11?

                Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                by FrankRose on Wed Jan 23, 2013 at 10:15:48 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  The murderer kills the innocent people. (0+ / 0-)

                  He is not the responsibility of the innocent people.  The abilitity for gun owners to disown the perpetrators of gun violence always amazes me.  I see the bumper stickers: "Gun control is putting two bullets through the same hole".  No.  Gun control is keeping guns out of the hands of people who would kill innocent people.  Something the gun culture has shown no interest in doing.  I'm sorry you feel victimized.  You are not.  The gun culture will not fix its problem.  Are we just supposed to wait to get shot?

                  "Goodnight, thank you, and may your God go with you"

                  by TheFern on Sat Jan 26, 2013 at 10:28:30 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  If you are so certain that you either have to (0+ / 0-)

                    infringe on the rights of innocent Americans or get shot, then I would suggest leaving the US.....
                    Or you can just drop the eye-rolling hyperbole.

                    "disown the perps"
                    It amazes you that the innocent have no responsibility for the actions of the guilty?
                    I would hope you are consistent and take responsibility for knife murders & unarmed murders both of which are used in far more murders than the guns covered under the AWB.

                    "I'm sorry you feel victimized"
                    This from the person that claims that--unless other Americans have their liberties taken away--you will be shot......

                    Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                    by FrankRose on Sun Jan 27, 2013 at 11:35:21 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Well this is certainly a reasonable argument. (0+ / 0-)

                      I'm done discussing this with you.  I'm sure you feel the same.

                      "Goodnight, thank you, and may your God go with you"

                      by TheFern on Sun Jan 27, 2013 at 03:53:55 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

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