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  •  I gotta disagree with you 100% here on a few (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DEMonrat ankle biter

    points.

    First:

    And I don't understand why you stand for the parties that are much WEAKER on Israeli security and land.
    I would say the same to you.

    The Habayit Hayehudi or Feiglin wing of the Likud propose a One State Solution that will radically change the very character of Israel and destroy whatever Jewish Majority there may be. UNLESS they either A. Carry out a massive campaign of ethnic cleansing or B. Simply disenfranchise most of the Arab populace in the West Bank. Either way, this is completely wrong and will lead to the eventual destruction of the State of Israel.

    I am not sure how you can say that being isolated completely internationally (because that is what will happen, if Bennett or the Hard Right of Likud get their way), or pissing off BOTH the U.S. and the E.U. makes Israel safer.

    In today's world, Israel is much safer with secure borders and a maintenance of its national values surrounding Jewish Democracy.

    Now before you tell me all the things that the Arabs have done wrong and their maximalist demands (and I get that part of things), tell me how Israel is safer as a State that carries out either massive ethnic cleansing OR massive disenfranchisement. In the short run (5 years) maybe... but not in the long run.

    As far as this:

    Bibi while not perfect by any means (i.e. endorsing Shit Romney), is not as bad as you make him out to be.
    I gotta disagree here as well... Bibi IS that bad. He has absolutely taken no stand on anything - the Occupation or anything else. Right now he is pulled in about three different direction and while he may talk a good game about some things, he does fuck all when it comes to doing them.

    After the J14 rallies he talked about social justice and economic reform. How'd that work out? Oh right... it didn't. He just keeps tossing more and more to his rich friends.

    After Bar-Ilan, he talked about a Two State Solution... So where is that at? He just keeps building and building, and his party moved to the Hard Right with One Staters Danon, and Feiglin.

    When aligning with Kadima, he talked about spreading the "burdens" of society more equally. More a long the lines of the Haredi exemption from the IDF. How'd that work out? Oh Right... Kadima pulled out of the coalition and got exactly nothing.

    Bibi, is that bad. He is isolating Israel internationally, he is not building up the economic side of things for all Israelis (so while numbers look OK, the wealth is concentrating at the top), and he is making no effort to solve some of the Social Justice problems his nation faces

    And I most disagree here:

    Also I don't see Bibi (unlike the parties you mentioned) making another Oslo Accord mistake. (Which is why I favor a party like [name in English] ISRAEL OUR HOME who will stand up for the tough but needed choices)
    I don't think Oslo was a mistake. In my mind there has to be at least an attempt at negotiation. I recommend you read my piece I put up at Progressive Zionist a few days ago - it's long and you will probably disagree with it but that is how I feel.

    Mannie, simply put, we are on different sides of the Israeli equation. I supported Labor and HaTanuah this election. Most of my friends supported Yesh Atid (who are about to go into coalition with Netanyahu and therefore make themselves irrelevant). / HaTanuah / Meretz.

    "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

    by volleyboy1 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 at 11:28:25 AM PST

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    •  You have a good heart, but reality sucks (0+ / 0-)
      I gotta disagree here as well... Bibi IS that bad. He has absolutely taken no stand on anything - the Occupation or anything else. Right now he is pulled in about three different direction and while he may talk a good game about some things, he does fuck all when it comes to doing them.
      Due to the nature of parliamentary rule, the leader will always be pulled in 3 or more directions.  Why single Bibi out for this?
      After the J14 rallies he talked about social justice and economic reform. How'd that work out? Oh right... it didn't. He just keeps tossing more and more to his rich friends.
      That is the nature of a politician. I can show you waht many here think are good democrats, yet they are beholden to Wall Street.  In this regard Bibi is no more better or worse than 90%+ of politicians.
      The Habayit Hayehudi or Feiglin wing of the Likud propose a One State Solution that will radically change the very character of Israel and destroy whatever Jewish Majority there may be. UNLESS they either A. Carry out a massive campaign of ethnic cleansing or B. Simply disenfranchise most of the Arab populace in the West Bank. Either way, this is completely wrong and will lead to the eventual destruction of the State of Israel.
      No one wants ethnic cleansing, but should the Palestinians choose to start something, you can NOT blame the defender (Israel) for winning a fight that the other one started.

      Like I tell the anti-semetic repug at work about this issue (who only pretends to care about the Palestinians as long as they only kill those of us who would not belong to his countryclub).  If I walk up to you and suckerpunch you, then you beat me down mercilessly, did I deserve it? Yes!  Do I have a right to complain? NO!

      Disenfranchise most of the Arab population & give them a territory without sovergn rights.  This can work without violence. Examples: Plenty of them, go visit a reservation. But in the case of the USA, we have it backwards. The USA put the true owners of the country in reservations & the thieves (and their descendents of which we are among those) have control. The solution proposed by the right in Israel would have the true owners of the land in control.

      I am not sure how you can say that being isolated completely internationally (because that is what will happen, if Bennett or the Hard Right of Likud get their way), or pissing off BOTH the U.S. and the E.U. makes Israel safer.
      The Muslim population in the EU is growing. As such there will come a time when unless Israel lays down and surrenders, there won't be any support from the EU for Israel anyways. As for the US this issue will always be up/down depending on the politicians we elect.
      I don't think Oslo was a mistake. In my mind there has to be at least an attempt at negotiation.
      Oslo let more weapons into the PA, and as such they were used to fire at Israelis. Concessions were made by Israel, and all the PA did was take those, escalate violence, and demand more.

      In my mind Oslo was an abject FAILURE.  If this is what is to come from negotiations, then I favor a unilateral move by Israel looking out for its best interests!

      Never underestimate stupid. Stupid is how reTHUGlicans win!

      by Mannie on Wed Jan 23, 2013 at 12:24:12 PM PST

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      •  I completely disagree with this except for the (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DEMonrat ankle biter

        part about my good heart ;-)

        I wrote a really long response and my computer crapped it out. SO rather than write another one, I will just tell you that I disagree with almost every single thing you wrote here. Almost everything.

        "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

        by volleyboy1 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 at 01:09:19 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Wish I could've read it (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          volleyboy1, DEMonrat ankle biter

          I wrote a really long response and my computer crapped it out.

          Garbage in garbage out, that is why your computer crapped it out! LOL :-P

          Seriously, while it is obvious we don't agree, I do respect your opinions.  While they may be far from my own, you do put up well reasoned thought behind your opinions.

          I disagree with almost every single thing you wrote here. Almost everything.
          Even my part about politicians beholden to money?

          Never underestimate stupid. Stupid is how reTHUGlicans win!

          by Mannie on Wed Jan 23, 2013 at 01:23:39 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well there was even a point there. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            DEMonrat ankle biter

            I agree that all Politicians are beholden to money, but, unlike your example of Democratic Politicians, I think Bibi is all fine about lining his folks pockets and doesn't care one whit for the poor. He is a classic Republican. I don't like them here and I don't like them for Israel.

            "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

            by volleyboy1 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 at 01:33:11 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

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