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View Diary: Scientology: A Religion, but a Threat to Mental Health? (291 comments)

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  •  Yeah, it seems possible that that is exactly (6+ / 0-)

    what is transpiring. It results in a sideways defense of Scientology and that is tragic. The actions of Scientology need to be exposed and intelligently discussed without distractions.

    "Southern nights have you ever felt a southern night?" Allen Toussaint ~~Remember the Gulf of Mexico~~

    by rubyr on Wed Jan 23, 2013 at 12:13:40 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  It's so easy sometimes! (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Brit, fuzzyguy, ZenTrainer

      As mentioned above, what we have here is a classic "my god is better than your god" scenario.

      It's okay to attack someone else's stupid religion, but when they attack yours, oh then that's a bit of a problem.

      No one is saying Scientology isn't a problem. But look at modern American law, look at the gay rights struggle, look at how women are under attack.

      This is Christian fueled crap. Pretending it's not isn't going to make it go away.

      •  Christian fueled crap. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        rubyr, timewarp, Alexandre, Timaeus

        I agree it is Christian fueled.  The difference is that Christians are free and able to disagree - even vocally, loudly and publicly - without fear of vicious personal attacks from the Church and being excommunicated and losing your family and friends.  Further, Scientology often controls the bank accounts of many members and if you leave and are vocal about the problems of the Church (or even that it doesn't work as advertised) then the Church will keep all your money.  Speaking against the church is a risk not just of shattered families and a destroyed life, but being kicked out,homeless and penniless.

        This is literally Scientology Church policy.  Official policy!  Not just the work of a few bad apples.  KSW as Mr. Cruise famously said...keeping scientology working.  Meanwhile, anyone in Christianity is free to disagree and there are many who do.  Only the most extreme right-wing Christains, I would bet, use religion as an excuse to justify their own ignorance and hatred.

        So no, there is no comparison even using your example of the dangers of extremist right wing Christians.

        •  Rosencrantz, that hair isn't going to exist if you (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ZenTrainer

          split it finer.

          Yes, Christians are a larger group, and there are subdivisions within the parent religion.

          But if you join a group of your own free will, you own their rep.

          And when someone meets the most basic of requirements for the Christian religion: accepting that Jesus Christ exists, he is lord and savior, and is the son of the Christian God.

          That's Christianity.

          I get that you don't like what some of your fellow Christians do, and I agree with you on that, but they are your people and are a part of your group.

          And you don't get to decide to kick them out. You don't get to decide that they don't believe Jesus is their lord and savior, because they do.

          And for whatever horrible thing they are doing at the time, I'm sure they believe that either A) Jesus wants them to do it, or B) He'll forgive them.

          Apparently he does that a lot.

          For everything.

          •  You completely miss the point. (5+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Wee Mama, tommymet, bevenro, Alexandre, Timaeus

            The point is one can be a member of a religion and still believe/say what they want.  One can NOT be part of scientology and have that same freedom.  Hence the difference.  I can agree or disagree without fear of reprisal...scientologists can not.    And it's not the work of a few crazies, we are talking about official policies here.  If the pope passes an official church doctrine saying people must bash gays and molest children, then maybe you would have a point.  But that isn't the case.  Again, unlike scientology where NOTHING can be done that goes against official church policy.  EVER.  You do so and you are either punished by the church or kicked out and declared an enemy.

            How is that splitting hairs in any way shape or form?  

            The rest of what you say is meaningless for a number of reasons.  Just because some people claim to be Christian and absolutely believe Jesus wants them to do something is irrelevant.  You may as well be saying all muslims are terrorists because a few crazy extremists speak for everyone.

          •  so because I'm Jewish I support the stoning of (3+ / 0-)

            adulterers?

            I support settlement building in Israel?

            You have a very monolithic view of religion which is wholly inaccurate...(sure, it's true for some, but not most)

      •  I don't see how Scientology is a religion, based (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        rubyr, Timaeus

        on its content. It's a form of psychology that uses technology and has a very odd back story. But it doesn't talk about God, it doesn't make transcendent claims or any of the things that are usually considered part of religions. It is more like Buddhism, which many of its practitioners consider a philosophy and a practice rather than a religion for similar reasons.



        Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary? . . . and respect the dignity of every human being.

        by Wee Mama on Wed Jan 23, 2013 at 01:46:45 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I recommend that with some dread, (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Wee Mama

          because Buddhism is, of course, a very deep and very venerable true religion.  I would be reluctant to compare it to the criminal hoax of scientology.

          But I definitely agree with this:

          I don't see how Scientology is a religion, based (1+ / 0-)

          on its content. It's a form of psychology that uses technology and has a very odd back story. But it doesn't talk about God, it doesn't make transcendent claims or any of the things that are usually considered part of religions.

          There is a museum in Washington, gosh, I can't remember where, that has a lot of oriental treasures. There's a last room that is very large, partially a garden, filled with very ancient Buddhist statues and artifacts.  The room just absolutely rings with spirit, with divinity, with the supernatural.  It's what I sometimes call a "loud silence."  It shakes the soul, at least if one is sensitive to the mystic as I am.  Poor me that I can't remember the name of that incredible place.

          I'm a Christian. Never going to change. But I also have found a lot of comfort and inspiration and intellectual challenge in Buddhism.  One of my best friends from college converted from a Protestant denomination to Buddhism, and I was Best Man at his wedding.  I respect them.

          •  I have a deep respect for most forms of Buddhism (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Timaeus

            and yes, it is a spiritual practice of great antiquity and much wisdom. In its roots though it began as a middle way out of theologies. It is only in some of the later, derivative forms such as Tibetan Buddhism and Pure Land Buddhism that something approaching divine beings play an important role. The Buddha precisely declined any divinity for himself. This is a decent discussion of whether it is appropriate to call it a religion.

            Zen practice is common enough among Episcopalians that some jokingly call themselves Buddapalians; they borrow the practices of Buddhism but keep their own theology.



            Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary? . . . and respect the dignity of every human being.

            by Wee Mama on Wed Jan 23, 2013 at 05:29:15 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  It's called the Freer Gallery of Art, part of the (0+ / 0-)

            Smithsonian.  Worth seeing!!!

      •  I disagree. My fear and loathing regarding (4+ / 0-)

        Scientology have zero to do with any other religion. Period. I just think that if we could stay on topic on the GOS, we would all learn more. Thus, for people who believe as you do, I think you should go off and write a diary comparing Scientology and the Christian religions and leave the discussion of Scientology as a discussion about Scientology.

        "Southern nights have you ever felt a southern night?" Allen Toussaint ~~Remember the Gulf of Mexico~~

        by rubyr on Wed Jan 23, 2013 at 02:04:14 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  There are millions of Christians who don't (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Timaeus

        support the doctrines you've outlined.  You can choose.

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