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View Diary: Michael Moore Speaks Out on Zero Dark Thirty (85 comments)

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  •  I wouldn't shy away (1+ / 0-)
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    Wee Mama

    from its inefficacy. Truth is - its a crap shoot whether you get good intel or not.

    The point is that even if it DID work - its still wrong.

    So the ultimate argument is a moral one.

    Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. - Mahatma Gandhi

    by NLinStPaul on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 01:16:26 PM PST

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    •  Of course (3+ / 0-)
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      Meteor Blades, BradyB, Agathena
      The point is that even if it DID work - its still wrong.
      My point is a political one. Moore's think it's unwise for us to engage in that debate; I think he's dead wrong.

      This is, in fact, an old argument among torture opponents.

      •  Of course its an old argument. (0+ / 0-)

        I'm very well acquainted with that.

        The fact that its an old argument among torture opponents means that there are thoughtful people on both sides.

        My position would be that - when push comes to shove - I stand on the ground where there are zero openings to lose the debate...the moral argument.

        Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. - Mahatma Gandhi

        by NLinStPaul on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 07:20:33 PM PST

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      •  Oh, and by the way... (0+ / 0-)

        the efficacy argument is based on the notion that the end goal of torture is to extract useful intelligence. Historically that hasn't always been the goal of those who torture. There's a lot of evidence that it has also been used as a tool of oppression and as a means for extracting propaganda. Torture has actually pretty effective in accomplishing that.

        Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. - Mahatma Gandhi

        by NLinStPaul on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 07:24:44 PM PST

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