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View Diary: For Me, Gun Control Is Personal. Very Personal. (274 comments)

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  •  I look at it as kind of a payback (4+ / 0-)

    I do think I understand where some of these people are coming from.  It's a basic distrust of the government brought about by a series of events, none necessarily connected.  Living in the USA under the currrent conditions is kind of a payback for Kent State, the Pentagon Papers, the Tonkin Gulf Resolution, warrentless wiretapping, and on, and on, and on.  I'm and old geezer and can remember back in the Eisenhower days when there was a general belief that the government was looking out for people.  I offer no solutions, but can remember quite clearly those days when everyone thought threats came from overseas.  

    •  I disagree. I think people who prefer their guns (18+ / 0-)

      to other people's children or other people are too locked into their own little worlds.

      They would never participate in a massacre so they think no one else would.

      And they say the massacres that do happen are just extreme outliers - can't prevent that. Or there must be some way besides messing with THEIR guns.

      Except the slaughters are happening much more frequently, so the gun lovers just scream "Second Amendment!!! Don't TOUCH my guns!!!" as the blood becomes a river.

      *There are two sides to every horseshit.* Kos

      by glorificus on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 03:29:23 PM PST

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      •  False dichotomy (3+ / 0-)

        It's not a choice between my (theoretical) gun or your children. One has nothing to do with the other. You're attempting to spread responsibility for crime to people who aren't criminals. Collective punishment. Isn't that against the Geneva Convention, let alone common sense?

        Here's a news flash: I'm never going to mess with your children no matter how many guns I do or do not own, so how about you leave me the fuck alone and focus on the actual criminals?

        "Is there anybody listening? Is there anyone who sees what's going on? Read between the lines, criticize the words they're selling. Think for yourself, and feel the walls become sand beneath your feet." --Geoff Tate, Queensryche

        by DarthMeow504 on Fri Jan 25, 2013 at 09:16:27 PM PST

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        •  You are being left alone (6+ / 0-)

          You don't have a right to a Spree Shooters Special with high capacity clips. Do your thing. Take up sword swallowing. Play paintball. Juggle flaming chainsaws. Let your freak flag fly. But don't demand some imagine prerogative that states your hobby supersede questions of public safety. As pointed out multiple times on this thread, it's just selfish.

          •  As long as you seek to take something from me (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            BlackSheep1

            ...then I'm NOT being left alone. I'm being penalized for something I had nothing to do with, when doing so serves no legitimate interest of government or society. Whatever I choose to own or do not own makes no difference to anyone and is none of their business. Unless I choose to commit a crime, nothing I do or own is any concern of yours.

            "Is there anybody listening? Is there anyone who sees what's going on? Read between the lines, criticize the words they're selling. Think for yourself, and feel the walls become sand beneath your feet." --Geoff Tate, Queensryche

            by DarthMeow504 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 at 07:56:33 PM PST

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            •  What bullshit. The laws that allow YOU to own (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mrkvica

              a gun with little or no hassle also allows Cho, Loughner, Holmes and Nancy Lanza to purchase guns.

              If you don't see a problem with that, I'd be surprised except I bet you are an RKBAer by attitude if not actual membership.

              Do you know what "E Pluribus Unum" means? Not in relation to this country, but what it means?

              Look it up, and then feel free to move to another country as you sure aren't interested in improving the U.S.

              *There are two sides to every horseshit.* Kos

              by glorificus on Sun Jan 27, 2013 at 06:22:32 PM PST

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              •  Damned right I see a problem (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                fuzzyguy

                ...with penalizing, restricting, and punishing millions of innocent people for the insane and highly criminal actions of a few. And I refuse to comply with your attempt to do so. What part of leave me and mine the fuck alone do you not understand?

                And if you think a regime of gun prohibition is going in any way to have the effect of "improving the country", then you're delusional. Look at alcohol Prohibition and the War on Drugs and educate yourself on the effect of those kinds of laws and the disasters they spawn.

                I'm not moving, and I'm not giving up anything of mine and I'm not submitting to your demands. Period. And there are millions of others who feel the same way.

                Fortunately, I don't think you're going to succeed in getting your way. The can of worms that would be opened by such an attempt and the harm done in it's wake would be staggering. Thankfully, you won't have to bear the blood on your hands that a War on Guns would cause. Maybe, just maybe we can finally kill the War on Drugs as well and put the criminal black marketeers and their gangs out of business without you opening grand new vistas of illegal business opportunity for them.

                "Is there anybody listening? Is there anyone who sees what's going on? Read between the lines, criticize the words they're selling. Think for yourself, and feel the walls become sand beneath your feet." --Geoff Tate, Queensryche

                by DarthMeow504 on Sun Jan 27, 2013 at 09:09:36 PM PST

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                •  Well, you work on ending the War on Drugs and (0+ / 0-)

                  I'll work on gun control. We'll see what happens.

                  And if you really want to left alone, what the fuck are you doing on dKos? Stay off all message boards.

                  *There are two sides to every horseshit.* Kos

                  by glorificus on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 04:18:40 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  "Leave me alone" means don't attack me (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Steve15

                    and don't take things from me or ban me from things that I have a free right to own and possess barring you initiating a prohibition regime against them. It doesn't mean I don't want to discuss issues, or engage in debate. It means keep your hands and your laws off of me.

                    It saddens me greatly that some people want to start up a new Prohibition when we're not even done counting the costs and burying the bodies from the last Wars on X we've been fighting. We haven't closed those down yet, the last thing we need is another. It's not a progressive thing to do, this insistence on repeating failed policies and engaging in easily predictable folly. The horrific costs and collateral damage of a prohibition on guns is obvious to anyone who's given the concept a rational examination, and yet some wish to unleash that nightmare on us all with no heed to the consequences of what they propose. Their cure is worse than the disease, and yet they wish us all to swallow it regardless of the harm that will result.

                    So you go ahead and keep beating the drums of a War on Guns, and I'll keep protesting the horrific cost in blood and treasure that such a war will cost. We will see what happens indeed.

                    "Is there anybody listening? Is there anyone who sees what's going on? Read between the lines, criticize the words they're selling. Think for yourself, and feel the walls become sand beneath your feet." --Geoff Tate, Queensryche

                    by DarthMeow504 on Tue Jan 29, 2013 at 06:01:13 AM PST

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                    •  Yeah, just keep whining. (0+ / 0-)

                      *There are two sides to every horseshit.* Kos

                      by glorificus on Tue Jan 29, 2013 at 07:38:08 PM PST

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                      •  Keep up the personal attacks (0+ / 0-)

                        ...it proves you don't have a logical and sound rebuttal to make. Ad hominem attacks are the hallmark of a bankrupt argument.

                        "Is there anybody listening? Is there anyone who sees what's going on? Read between the lines, criticize the words they're selling. Think for yourself, and feel the walls become sand beneath your feet." --Geoff Tate, Queensryche

                        by DarthMeow504 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 12:12:21 AM PST

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                        •  Personal attacks? Those 20 dead kids and (0+ / 0-)

                          their dead teachers are the personal attacks to which I pay attention.

                          Along with the more than 500 dead young people in Chicago annually.

                          *There are two sides to every horseshit.* Kos

                          by glorificus on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 03:29:40 AM PST

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                          •  Appeal to emotion (0+ / 0-)

                            You're just a fountain of logical fallacies, aren't you? You could be used in a debate class as an example of what not to do.

                            You cite the results of a determined murderer with stolen weapons as reason to ban weapons from non-criminals without any bother to establish how this would work, how it would be enforced, and how you would prevent the well known pitfalls of prohibition. People keep making the "cliche" argument that determined criminals will acquire guns anyhow regardless of laws to the contrary because it's never been successfully countered and in fact has been proven time and again. The Sandy Hook case itself is proof! The shooter wasn't legally allowed to own guns, so he murdered someone and stole weapons! The only logic a gun ban has in that situation is "well if no weapons exist, nobody can steal them!" which is ludicrous considering that no ban has ever successfully prevented a black market. All prohibition does is empower and enrich criminals who cash in on the lucrative opportunity to traffic in contraband. All a ban will accomplish is to push the banned items underground. The idea that you can use laws to push the genie of 200 year old technology back into the bottle is pure fantasy.

                            You go on to cut the legs out from under your own argument by citing Chicago and it's murder rate. How can you have failed to notice that Chicago has one of the most restrictive set of gun bans in the nation? How well has that worked out for them? Given these facts, can you fail to see that Chicago's example of gun control is a demonstrated failure? How can you honestly propose doing the same thing again and again no matter how many times it's been proven ineffective and expect to be taken seriously?

                            Anti-gun fanatics like you take every incident as an excuse to push more gun bans of the type that failed to prevent the very incident they're using as a banner. At what point will you wake up and realize that it doesn't work? The only explanation for such behavior is that your belief blinds you to logic, or more cynically that you don't care about actually solving the problem and are only using any excuse to push your predetermined agenda.

                            I swear, it's like repukes and tax cuts. Economy is good, tax cuts! Economy is bad, tax cuts! Bad economic event, tax cuts! No matter what, tax cuts is the solution! Tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts! Who cares if it works? If it makes things worse, we'll have more excuses to call for more tax cuts!

                            For some, and you appear to be among them, "gun control!" is an ideology bordering on religious faith just as much as tax cuts is for some rabid conservatives. Logic be damned, results be damned, gotta keep the faith.

                            A true progressive is concerned with what works and not with purist ideology.

                            "Is there anybody listening? Is there anyone who sees what's going on? Read between the lines, criticize the words they're selling. Think for yourself, and feel the walls become sand beneath your feet." --Geoff Tate, Queensryche

                            by DarthMeow504 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 10:21:58 AM PST

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                          •  I'm now sure who you think you are, but you (0+ / 0-)

                            think much more highly of yourself that I think is warranted.

                            Speaking of "ideology bordering on religious faith"; anyone who would rather have their guns instead of living people has issues I find repulsive.

                            Keep on whining.

                            *There are two sides to every horseshit.* Kos

                            by glorificus on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 06:57:41 PM PST

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                          •  Commenter DarthMeow is useless... (0+ / 0-)

                            He is EXACTLY the type of person who's callous indifference to a horrific event is reason enough he should have every last one of his guns taken away.

                            I'm so fucking tired of these nasty little pieces of work commenting on this post and disrespecting the deaths of those in Newtown. Their arguments are self-centered, childish and full of paranoia. They have no idea how that event has affected those parents, that town, and reasonable-minded people all over the world.

                            And they're as far from "brave" as can be. In fact, the whole lot of them are pathetic cowards. Sorry. You need a gun to feel important and rant against your second amendment rights? You're pathetic.

                            "It doesn't matter whether you win or lose. It's how you ladle the gravy." - Felix Ungar

                            by Verbalpaintball on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 08:43:12 AM PST

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                          •  I agree. I'm not reccing it because I do not put (0+ / 0-)

                            it past the RKBAers to start HRing it which will cause Markos to ban everyone.

                            I appreciate your views.

                            *There are two sides to every horseshit.* Kos

                            by glorificus on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 04:39:44 PM PST

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    •  People who fear their government (8+ / 0-)

      seldom seem to mention Kent State, Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, The Pentagon Papers.

      They may talk about 9/11, Benghazi consulate.

      The fear seem to be more "out there" and ephemeral.

    •  Government was different in the 50's and 60's (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Steve15, lyvwyr101, a2nite

      I think the government of the 50's and 60's was a different creature then it is today.

      50 years ago, our law-makers were not as dependent on wealthy interests and private financial gifts to get into and stay in office.  Running a campaign was less expensive, there was less use of mass media to garner votes, and the congress-corporate revolving door employment pattern was less entrenched.

      Over the intervening years, getting in office and staying in office has become a year-round activity involving personal appeals to wealthy and corporate interests.   Hence, law-makers' constituency has changed from doing something that most voters will like to doing something that those wealthy patrons will like.

      Now voters know the game is rigged, and they no longer trust the law-makers to hold their best interests at heart.  I myself do not trust my "representatives" to represent me; it is no suprise to me that others feel they want to arm themselves against this uncaring  corporatocracy.

      "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

      by Hugh Jim Bissell on Sat Jan 26, 2013 at 06:23:12 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

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