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View Diary: Cowardice in the face of climate change is just bad politics (100 comments)

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  •  The powers will shut it down (1+ / 0-)
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    Steve Canella

    They have the will and the means. OWS was a trial run. They're ready for this, even welcome it. We're not going to have real change come through rallies OR violence. We have to elect more progressives, period. That's the only way this works. I'm not about to give up on the system. Not on this site especially.

    "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

    by kovie on Sun Jan 27, 2013 at 05:16:15 PM PST

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    •  OWS was way too small and disorganized. (0+ / 0-)

      Early on, at the peak, there were still well under a 100,000, and never that for more than a day or two, in NYC.

      In D.C., we never had more than about 10,000 in the two camps, and it quickly settled down to 1-2K, on weekends.

      3 Million in one place is NOTHING they are prepared to shut down.

      The Class, Terror and Climate Wars are indivisible and the short-term outcome will affect the planet for centuries. -WiA "When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill..." - PhilJD

      by Words In Action on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 07:15:19 AM PST

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    •  Elections and letter-writing are minimums. (0+ / 0-)

      You participate in them merely to avoid the worst of two ineffective options. No matter how many Democrats you elect, they will always be able to flip enough to protect themselves on the most important votes.

      You won't avoid the worst effects of Climate Change if you rely on them solely. Maybe that's enough for you, but not for me.

      The Class, Terror and Climate Wars are indivisible and the short-term outcome will affect the planet for centuries. -WiA "When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill..." - PhilJD

      by Words In Action on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 07:19:05 AM PST

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      •  Agreed that formal participation (0+ / 0-)

        in the democratic process isn't enough, e.g. voting and petitions, and that we need protests, rallies, legitimate acts of civil disobedience, etc. But ultimately, there's only one way that lasting structural change happens in the US, and that's through the political process, where laws are made and unmade. All efforts to effect change, whether within or outside the formal political process, must ultimately be directed towards this end. Which requires participation in that process. So while it's necessary to push the leaders we have to do the right thing, it's also necessary to elect better leaders and get rid of bad ones.

        "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

        by kovie on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 07:40:15 AM PST

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        •  No argument there. The exceptional case I refer to (0+ / 0-)

          is Climate Change, which cannot wait for normal, glacial political change, especially since it is the direct result of Class War, which is raging as hot as ever and also seemingly impervious to ant winds of political change.

          The Class, Terror and Climate Wars are indivisible and the short-term outcome will affect the planet for centuries. -WiA "When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill..." - PhilJD

          by Words In Action on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 08:30:45 AM PST

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          •  Unfortunately (0+ / 0-)

            Normal political change is literally the only way we can deal adequately with climate change, since the only people who can do that happen to be the ones in power. Hopefully, though, it won't be glacial. There are certainly precedents for that, e.g. getting Obama to do a rapid turnaround on gay rights, or getting out of Iraq. Not all political change need be glacial, but all structural change needs to go through the political process. There is literally no other way to force polluters to stop polluting and take whatever other measures we need to properly fix this. So we have to bring extraordinary pressure to bear on politicians, and replace the most difficult ones with better ones.

            "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

            by kovie on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 09:08:04 AM PST

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