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View Diary: This is why I carry a gun when I can. (219 comments)

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  •  I will never persuade mouth breathers ... (1+ / 0-)
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    whether on the left or the right.

    What I will do is assert my position and refute those I disagree with, whether with data and facts or contempt and ridicule as the debate dictates.

    As a matter of politics and legislation living in Alaska, I cannot do other than write my state representatives -- particularly in the Senate, since any regulation in the House is closer to DOA than not.

    In the Senate, I voted for and am represented by a Democrat - Nick Begich.   I am extremely distressed that this current political initiative from the Left will utterly poison the well for his reelection effort in 2014 -- if it has not already.

    For this reason, I am quite contemptuous of those who dismiss the potential political ramifications of irresponsible and off-target legislative efforts in this national firearm debate.  

    There is a very clear majority here on DK who explicitly "don't give a shit" and to them, I say fuck you too and will simply argue to my representatives ... don't you dare.  And I am not alone as a red-state, democratic voting, firearm owing progressive.  Both I and the NYT have addressed the reticence of Dems to embrace this fight -- and it is not a big cabal or conspiracy of the NRA.

    It is an issue that must be carefully constructed and addressed ... and sadly, I really don't see a DK majority perspective that follows the thought or care that you demonstrate.

    •  You aren't doing yourself any favors (2+ / 0-)
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      ancblu, aseth

      I mean, you just basically said people who are moved by Sandy Hook are mouth breathers.  I would say they just need their passion redirected a little bit.

      I know how tough it can be to be on the "wrong" side of an argument here.  But maybe open with a reasonable objection, then move onto contempt after someone is rude or something.  Parachuting in to "correct" people and tell them how stupid they are without offering something constructive is not going to get you nowhere.  Unless you find more mes around ;)  Seriously, though, in your pushbacks try to give some idea that you aren't just trying to muddy the waters and offer up your own ideas.  People here want common ground, show them where that is.

      But I'm on-board with the worry about overreach.  I mean, for Lawrence O'Donnell to say gun rights advocates have blood on their hands over and over again is not the way for liberals to win on this issue, not in the long run at least.  That's the most grating example I can think of, but I do think the rhetoric is potentially harmful.

      You are not going to win over the DK majority on this, but they are not the actual majority.  However, the actual majority does back the initiatives the president laid out and, as I mentioned in another comment, I think the AWB should be ditched in negotiations.  Its the most harmful politically and the least useful policy, not really a hard call there.  Beyond that, though, I haven't seen any proposals that I have a problem with.

      There is truth on all sides. The question is how much.

      by slothlax on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 12:23:43 AM PST

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      •  I do understand effective advocacy (1+ / 0-)
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        and calling someone a dipshit doesn't always advance the cause.  I agree.  Pick your battles, as they say. I like arguing or discussing with smart people and the dumb ones ... not so much.

        But please be clear ... I do not suggest that anyone moved by Sandyhook are all mouth breathers.  This is a seriously tragic experience -- the babies, teachers, families, friends, the Nation ... Christ, even including a very ill young man and his loving mother.

        There is nothing good from this life's experience at all, for anyone.  But if we are to draw lessons and craft policy responses then it is our responsibility to do it with care and thoughtful reflection ... and not hyper-emotional, knee-jerk reaction, from wherever on the political spectrum.

        In this debate, I appreciate those -- like you -- who actually think and reflect.  To the others, I am not someone who will persuade but rather just another irresolute and "parachuting in" bulwark ... who as a fellow progressive is in fact far more tolerant and understanding than they will ever face in the world outside of DK.

        Engagement can be a necessary or good thing ... even if you are out-numbered.

        •  I didn't doubt your sympathy (1+ / 0-)
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          Just telling you how it read.

          Don't get me wrong, I'm a dick when I get going.  I just try to wait for a reason.

          With the discussion we've had in mind, try re-reading my original comment and your response.  I was always willing to engage, but it wasn't until I defended the part of your response I was most offended by that we were able to engage.  Perhaps a gentler approach will find more common ground with other people who are less patient than me.

          I feel weird giving advice to an elder, especially someone who's been around here for so long.  But this debate has eroded some trust and the only way to build it up again is to be civil with each other and offer more than just criticism.

          There is truth on all sides. The question is how much.

          by slothlax on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 01:40:50 AM PST

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          •  On the intertubz, we're all equal my friend, (1+ / 0-)
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            whether dickish or decent.  Thank you for the civil and thoughtful discussion.  One bridge at a time, between us and all.

            God speed.

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