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View Diary: Grover Norquist is Winning Thanks to a Debt Ceiling Crisis Every Few Months (44 comments)

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  •  The debt ceiling is always between House+Treasury (4+ / 0-)

    and the Treasury in the executive branch(because they are responsible for the debt so they are always involved with the House on the debt ceiling) even though it's technically raised by the House and then Senate; it was once routine as I said. I was just saying Truman didn't have to pass sellout deals to get anything done even what was routine.

    Truman knew better to make matters a matter of trust in the GOP. No, as I pointed our repeatedly the Obama/Bush tax cut deal never included a raise in the debt ceiling and he as asked and warned about this. He had the leverage but didn't add that as part of the deal.

    I don't negotiate grand bargains with deficit terrorists!

    by priceman on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:23:35 AM PST

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    •  As I said (0+ / 0-)

      Truman had fuck all

      to do with raising the debt ceiling.

      Soon after the debt limit was increased to $300 billion in April 1945, Truman became president. The debt ceiling was reduced to $275 billion in June 1946, and the Korean War was primarily financed by higher taxes, not increased debt.

      The debt ceiling would not increase until 1954, when Dwight D. Eisenhower was president.

      Playing fast and loose with facts will not aid your attempts to smear the President.

      "Fascism is attracting the dregs of humanity- people with a slovenly biography - sadists, mental freaks, traitors." - ILYA EHRENBURG

      by durrati on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:30:36 AM PST

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      •  Didn't say Truman himself raised the debt ceiling (6+ / 0-)

        This is what I said:

        Leading up to the post WWII boom from 1940-1946 there was one debt ceiling raise a year because  Truman was smarter than to leave it to the GOP in Congress for bipartisan-shit's sake or whatever the reason Obama did it.
        It should say 1940-1945. No sellout deals had to be raised to raise taxes or debt ceilings and because taxes were high and progressive no debt ceiling had to be raised during his time to fund things.

        So the point still stands. It's about the sellout deals to get routine things done. Truman didn't cop to that.

        I don't negotiate grand bargains with deficit terrorists!

        by priceman on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:51:47 AM PST

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        •  so much gobbledegook.... (0+ / 0-)

          you clearly implied such in that very para, either unaware of the facts or trying to mislead your readers.

          In any case comparing the 40's GOP with today's idiots is an exercise in futility, there is no comparison; many Republicans of that time were both sane and responsible citizens while in the Senate the Dems controlled 66 seats to 28 for the Repubs, with Robert M. La Follette, Jr. as that day's Bernie Sanders. The House was constituted 262 to 169. FDR didn't compromise cause he damned well didn't have to.

          "Fascism is attracting the dregs of humanity- people with a slovenly biography - sadists, mental freaks, traitors." - ILYA EHRENBURG

          by durrati on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 01:02:38 PM PST

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          •  No, I didn't but Truman was VP (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            aliasalias

            That p[art could have been worded better, but FDR's treasury presided over the raising of that debt ceiling like one week before Truman was President instead of being VP whom is President of the Senate. So.lol. no. As I said it's between the House and whatever administration's Treasury and what you are whining about is really a distinction without a difference. besides Obama failed to raise taxes like Truman did as I said which actually had to do with my point and all Obama had to do was nothing but couldn't.

            And you fail parliamentary history 101. FDR needed 67 votes to break a filibuster which is why he couldn't pass anti-lynching legislation(tried twice) and implemented FDIC insurance because of Huey Long's filibuster. Oops. This zombie lie is old. Looks like you hope people believe in that revisionism crap, but they don't.

            Sure the GOP was more reasonable than now but plenty of them were anti New Deal including the Dixecrats that turned GOP after the 1948 convention. But that's kind of the point as I said things were more routine, but Bill Clinton dealt with crazies in the 90s too and din't put the debt ceiling up for bargain.

            Thanks for allowing me to correct all of this.

            I don't negotiate grand bargains with deficit terrorists!

            by priceman on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 02:38:55 PM PST

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            •  Indeed part of the FDR coalalition (0+ / 0-)

              was Dixiecrats, which is why he eschewed racial politics, which would of course set you to howling in 1935, but he deemed the health of the nation as a whole paramount at the time (an Obama like decision).

              But he rarely needed to worry about the filibuster. The Emergency Banking Act of 1933 passed the House by a voice vote and the Senate by a margin of 73-7, with 22 Republicans voting in favor and only five opposed. The
              Glass-Steagall Banking Act passed the Senate by a voice vote and the House by a vote of 262-19. The Federal Emergency Relief Act of 1933 passed the Senate by a voice vote, and the House by a vote of 331-42, with 74 Republicans voting in favor. The Securities Act of 1933 was passed by a voice vote in both houses of Congress. The Securities Exchange Act passed the House by a vote of 281-84 with the support of 22 Republicans, and the Senate by a vote of 62-13, with 14 Republicans in the yes column, one Democrat voting no, and eleven Democrats not voting.The National Industrial Recovery Act passed in the House by a vote of 325-76, with Republicans voting in favor by a margin of 54-50 and 25 Democrats voting no, and in the Senate by a vote of 58-24, with the support of nine Republicans, while four Democrats voted no and nine did not vote.The Agricultural Adjustment Act of 1933 passed the House by a vote of 315-98 with the support of 39 Republicans, and the Senate by a vote of 64-20, with fifteen Republicans voting yes while four Democrats voted no and seven Democrats did not vote.The National Labor Relations Act was passed by a voice vote in the House, and by a vote of 63-12 in the Senate, with 12 Republicans voting in favor while four Democrats voted no and fifteen members of FDR’s party did not vote on the measure.The Social Security Act was passed by a vote of 372-33 in the House, where Republicans supported the measure by a margin of 79-18, and by a vote of 77-6 in the Senate, where Republicans voted in favor by a margin of 15-5 and eight Democrats did not vote.And the Fair Labor Standards Act was passed by a vote of 314-97 in the House, with the Republicans voting in favor by a margin of 46-41 and 56 Democrats defecting. The Senate passed the bill by a vote of 56-28, with Democrats casting fully half of the negative votes while nine members of their party did not vote.

              In contrast to Obama FDR's ability to pass legislation was limited only by his adviser's ability  to dream it up...as long as he did not touch the third rail of race. Politics is like that. Grown ups accept it.

              And Truman had fuck all to do with raising the debt ceiling, it was and had always been a matter of routine until after the Kenyan was elected.

              "Fascism is attracting the dregs of humanity- people with a slovenly biography - sadists, mental freaks, traitors." - ILYA EHRENBURG

              by durrati on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 04:13:56 PM PST

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              •  Yes, FDR knew how to use a crisis (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                aliasalias

                Unlike this President. No, that's called having real constraints so I don't howl about it  and yet he still did make some moves on race. Executive Order #8802 and including AA in the WPA. That's not like Obama.

                FDR welcomed Wall St's hatred along with the public's hatred fo Wall St(even with an attempt on his life via the Business Plot) so there was a lot of pressure there not to pass Glass Steagall. FDR had to worry about the SCOTUS which kept striking down parts of the New Deal like the NIRA, but he fought on and threatened to pack the SCOTUS; even though his bill failed it eventually caused the switch in time to save nine and much of the New Deal then became law. There is no comparison with Obama.

                There was similar pressure in 2008 after the crash and all conservative ideology was bankrupt though Obama wouldn't say it like FDR did. There was enough public pressure to elect the first AA POTUS(so so much for that excuse) and to go after Wall St, but instead he kept the pitchforks away from Wall St, hired Tim Geithner, and Larry Summers, liked about campaigning on a public option(at least FDR tried Medicare for All with SS but had to drop it for SS to pass).

                And you glossed over my points about Truman; he didn't need to make deals with the GOP or Dixecrats on what was routine to raise taxes to fund things instead of raising the debt ceiling with Congress; he vetoed Taft Hartley instead of pretending to support the EFCA to combat Taft Hartley. The story about Truman getting everything he wanted with no opposition is fiction; otherwise there would have been the CRA of 1964 much earlier along with his civil rights commission among other tenets of the Fair Deal.

                There were plenty of fights and defeats but at least he fought them instead of putting what was routine on the table which is what I was talking about as already explained clearly; also well documented in this diary.

                I don't negotiate grand bargains with deficit terrorists!

                by priceman on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 04:44:02 PM PST

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                •  What was glossed overc in your "diary" (0+ / 0-)

                  are the significant victories won by Obama despite universal opposition from a GOP playing to it's peckerwood base. Your diary is muddled and shot thru with historical inaccuracies...perhaps you'll do better next time.

                  "Fascism is attracting the dregs of humanity- people with a slovenly biography - sadists, mental freaks, traitors." - ILYA EHRENBURG

                  by durrati on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 04:59:21 PM PST

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                  •  Like putting the full faith and credit of the US.. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    aliasalias

                    as something to debate because he wants austerity? 0 Wall St executives prosecuted? that kind of victory? Or is it Dolecare-Romneycare Heritage Foundation-insurance reform? Was it the backroom deals with Big Pharma killing Byron Dorgan reimportation amendment? Or was it how this WH lobbied to kill Brown Kaufman keeping TBTF?

                    BTW your history is wrong. Huey Long's filibuster of Glass Steagall banking Act in 1933 to make it stronger with FDIC for 3 weeks was one of the longest filibusters ever so yeah you're the one with muddled history.

                    Anyway, my diary is strong which is why you didn't really read but one paragraph and refuted almost nothing. That tells me all I need to know so no need to continue here.

                    I don't negotiate grand bargains with deficit terrorists!

                    by priceman on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:18:57 PM PST

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                    •  Glass Steagall (0+ / 0-)

                      was not really a part of the New Deal, it passed before the inauguration, it was included to show the bipartisan nature of the Congress in the 1930s...

                      Deals were made before the healthcare bill to keep big pharma money on the sidelines, this is, again, how shit gets done and why reform wasn't rolled like Hillarycare was.

                      Adults accept that politics isn't a perfect process and that few Presidents have the advantages and the historic stage FDR had.

                      "Fascism is attracting the dregs of humanity- people with a slovenly biography - sadists, mental freaks, traitors." - ILYA EHRENBURG

                      by durrati on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:36:53 PM PST

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