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View Diary: Alabama Schoolbus Hostage Crisis Drags into Day 3 (181 comments)

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  •  Your great aunt's story is an unusual one (4+ / 0-)

    There aren't a lot of people running around assaulting strangers with a machete. A machete is not the weapon of choice for an armed robber. It is unlikely to be grabbed by an angry ex-spouse. They are not often the cause of fatal accidents with young children.

    And contrary to your simplistic all/nothing view; if all guns were suddenly banished you would not find the same level of death and destruction continuing, simply with machetes or other means.  Yes, some people are so intent on harming themselves or others that they will find a way. If other ways are more difficult, or more "up close and personal", or painful,  a significant number of people will overcome those urges before the worst happens.

    "No one life is more important than another. No one voice is more valid than another. Each life is a treasure. Each voice deserves to be heard." Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse & Onomastic

    by Catte Nappe on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 01:47:42 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Infamous mass murderer Richard Speck (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sponson, Catte Nappe, sethtriggs

      was empowered by just the threat of a gun in his hand murdered eight student nurses one at a time with by knife and/or strangulation. What if he didn't have a gun? Would  more than the one who hid under a bed have survived? I certainly think so.

      I will never forget the bulletin with the chilling artists sketch of Speck that was broadcast on our old black and white TV. I was in 6th grade. It all happened within a few miles of our apartment.

      ƃuoɹʍsıʇɥƃıɹ

      by rightiswrong on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 03:22:50 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well that makes no sense (0+ / 0-)

        So they were so scared of being shot that they stood there in line waiting to be stabbed to death?  
        Sorry, but it sounds like that if he'd only had the knife they would have stood there frozen in fear just the same.

        According to you a gun or ammo ban wouldn't even matter because it was just the threat of a gun. If he'd been holding a real looking toy gun, it would have been the same result right?

        •  There were eight women (0+ / 0-)

          and the first impression was the appearance of a man with a gun at the door. They likely realized that they could have all been shot in rapid succession. He was taking them one at a time from one room to another, raping, strangling, and stabbing them. These women were Filipino, probably smaller in stature and submissive in nature particularly back in 1966 when mass killings of this nature were less commonplace. They were probably terrified beyond the ability to resist even if it were in their nature to do so. I read the account of the lone survivor and remember it well. She described how silently they all died, one after the other. Honestly, I don't give a damn about how Speck used his gun. He was able to kill eight women without actually firing a shot.

          Having easy access to a gun is like having the key to any number of bad outcomes.

          According to you a gun or ammo ban wouldn't even matter because it was just the threat of a gun. If he'd been holding a real looking toy gun, it would have been the same result right?
          You are using inductive and somewhat contradictory reasoning. You are supposing that without the presence of a gun as the first and very real possibility of death,  eight women would have quietly submitted to sequential murder. Have you considered the ability of eight-- actually nine women running like hell in the opposite direction of Speck and his knife and making one hell of a noise while doing so? Granted, there is an inherent fright or flight built into all of us. I maintain that at some point these women would have attempted an escape if it weren't for the gun. These women were intelligent enough not to set off a shooting spree but at the same time terrified into submission.

          But if you're trying to make a case for guns somehow being a good thing, be my guest. The avenues for this argument are becoming increasingly threadbare and shrill. I sincerely hope you or any of your loved ones never find themselves at the wrong end of a gun and I could only hope that you or your fellow owners never pick one up in anger.

          Have a good evening.

          ƃuoɹʍsıʇɥƃıɹ

          by rightiswrong on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 09:22:47 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  But it disproves the talking point (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Vetwife

      The talking point being "if only person X didn't have a gun, person Y would still be alive".

      Well person X didn't have a gun and person Y is still dead.

      •  Maybe person Y would be alive, maybe not (0+ / 0-)

        Often there are one or more specific individual examples that are outliers. Person X killed person Y with a telephone handset.  Person X killed person Y with a can of hairspray and a bic lighter. We can't say that person Y would be alive if person X lacked a gun - gun didn't even enter the equation.

        More complex is assessing what would have happened "if".  Person X shot person Y. Would person X have killed person Y by other means if they didn't have a gun? In some cases, they would. In many other cases, probably not.

        The point is to create a framework where the likelihood of Y persons being killed by X persons is reduced. Access to a gun makes it easier for person X to kill person Y than would have been possible absent a gun.

        "No one life is more important than another. No one voice is more valid than another. Each life is a treasure. Each voice deserves to be heard." Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse & Onomastic

        by Catte Nappe on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 05:50:45 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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