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View Diary: Testing Kills the Joy of Teaching and Learning (24 comments)

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  •  And then you wonder why you're a minority. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Orinoco, FG

    You want to elevate the teacher to a god-like level that we don't elevate anyone else to.  Most people know instinctively that this is ridiculous: teachers are like any other professionals.  There are good ones and not-so-good ones.  The idea of not evaluating their work product, which is student learning, is ludicrous.  The enemies of overtesting are making little headway because it's too apparent that they oppose all testing.  

    You know, I sometimes think if I could see, I'd be kicking a lot of ass. -Stevie Wonder at the Glastonbury Festival, 2010

    by Rich in PA on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 09:59:35 AM PST

    •  Can you (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Orinoco

      substantiate the claim that "opponents of overtesting" (which is a strawman) oppose all testing? You are also conflating assessment with testing. No one is claiming to be against assessment, but these standardized tests do little in way of evaluating teaching and learning and do a lot in terms of damaging education.

      "Your conspiracy theories won't work without evidence." -Nasir Jones

      by Tristero 312 on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 10:26:08 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Hard to prove a negative. (0+ / 0-)

        Easy for you to disprove it, though!  You, or someone, should show the class an example of an opponent of testing as it currently exists who offers an alternative model.  That shouldn't be too hard.

        You know, I sometimes think if I could see, I'd be kicking a lot of ass. -Stevie Wonder at the Glastonbury Festival, 2010

        by Rich in PA on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 01:00:16 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Oh, Please, Rich (0+ / 0-)

      We don't elevate doctors to a god-like level? Lawyers? Quarterbacks?

      As citizens, we evaluate those professionals by word of mouth, same way parents evaluate individual teachers. When is the last time you saw nationally publicised test results on engineers who designed your freeway overpasses? Oh, wait! those engineers are tested! By other ENGINEERS.

      "The problems of incompetent, corrupt, corporatist government are incompetence, corruption and corporatism, not government." Jerome a Paris

      by Orinoco on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 11:50:07 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  We can choose doctors and lawyers. How do you (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Rich in PA

        choose teachers? Even if you know by word of mouth that this particular teacher is not good, what are you going to do? Take your kid to a private school?

      •  Asked and answered (0+ / 0-)

        FG has handled part of the answer, which is that you don't get to choose teachers.  The other part is that doctors and engineers are indeed evaluated by their work products.  The last thing the world needs is more medical dramas on TV, but you may want to check on Monday Mornings on TNT.  Here's the summary from the show's website:

        ABOUT MONDAY MORNINGS

        Doctors face life-and-death decisions each and every day as they fight against often-impossible odds to save their patients. When things don’t go as they should, it’s up to their medical colleagues to determine what went wrong and learn from those costly mistakes.

        Monday Mornings follows the lives of doctors as they push the limits of their abilities and confront their personal and professional failings. Every Monday, the doctors must gather with their peers for a confidential review of complications and errors in patient care.

        You know, I sometimes think if I could see, I'd be kicking a lot of ass. -Stevie Wonder at the Glastonbury Festival, 2010

        by Rich in PA on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 01:04:00 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Sounds an awful lot like the evaluation process (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Orinoco

          teachers have used for the past decades, although not as frequently or intensively, possibly because a teacher doesn't really have the ability to kill a student with a slip of the hand...

          Peer evaluation? Great. All for it. Experienced professionals observing and giving advice to their peers is a grand idea.

          Firing teachers based on the results of high-stakes testing that doesn't measure anything accurately? Hell no. Don't be absurd.

    •  Student learning is not solely the product of the (0+ / 0-)

      teacher. It is the sum total of the experience of the student, which includes what teachers bring to them, but also includes all the rest of their life experience - which can be dramatically affected by something as minor as missing breakfast.

      Your premise is not right; it's not even close enough to reality to be wrong. It's just ludicrous.

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