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View Diary: NRA's opposition to universal background check shows just how unreasonable it plans to be (227 comments)

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  •  Disagree (0+ / 0-)
    How many lives did this save? How many other violent crimes did it prevent? Unknown. But it would take a lot of dishonest juggling to claim that the number was zero.
    Actually I think it would take a lot of dishonest juggling to claim that the number was significant, even zero. Anyone refused or not going to a shop because they know they would be refused could go to a gun show, in another state if necessary, and acquire the armory of their fantasy.

    "Who stood against President Obama in 2012?" - The trivia question nobody can answer.

    by Lib Dem FoP on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 12:37:42 PM PST

    •  They would have to go out of state to do it... (10+ / 0-)

      ...and, as I noted, some people barred from legally buying a gun will obtain one otherwise. Which is, of course, why we need a tough, universal background check at the federal level and gun-trafficking legislation that penalizes straw buyers. But surely you're not arguing that all 6,000 people in 2011 who got stopped from buying a gun in California at a store or at a gun show, went to Reno or Tucson and got one.

      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 01:13:40 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think you misinterpret (0+ / 0-)

        These checks are a bit like dabbing antiseptic on a gangrenous leg. The infection has already spread too far and more radical measures are needed.

        But surely you're not arguing that all 6,000 people in 2011 who got stopped from buying a gun in California at a store or at a gun show, went to Reno or Tucson and got one.
        Not all but if they were dim and desperate enough to get a firearm to undergo the checks, they are going to get one elsewhere legally or illegally. You simply have to look at the UK where I live to see that the most draconian gun control measures do not stop criminals acquiring firearms. (Adults are liable for a five year minimum sentence for simple illegal possession and the use of replicas in crimes carry the same sanctions) However the number of murders and other crimes involving them are tiny compared to the USA - fewer than the average long weekend's toll.

        Also these do not stop those who quite legally possess them after stringent checks later using them to commit suicide - farmers are allowed shotguns for pest control and, surprise surprise, this is the largest group who die in firearms incidents.

        On the other hand, the conditions for keeping firearms are also controlled and subject to inspection by police. These include a properly secured means of storing them when not in use. That's not a rack but a reinforced metal cabinet with an approved lock. Not onerous for the legitimate owner but it also stops kids getting the handgun out of the parents' bedside stand and playing "cowboys".

        The numbers killed in the sorts of rampages that have fueled the current debates should be set against the number of accidental killings and suicides involving firearms.

        Checks at purchase of the sort proposed simply would not identify those whose interest in guns go from sporting to batshit crazy over the following months and years (with respect to those on here who hold an opposite opinion, those in the media opposing gun control in the USA seem to demonstrate that this is a natural consequence of buying one!)  Indeed, some of the reasons given for buying one seem to indicate that the individual is suffering from paranoia which should surely debar them anyway.  Al Jazeera has aired the first of a three parter and is one of the most informative I have seen on the whole debate.  There is some VERY useful stuff starting at about 10:40 into it from a historian - did you know the NRA promoted gun control laws up to 1977 when a group of hard line right-wingers prevented it from withdrawing from politics, moving headquarters and set it on its present path by staging a coup at the annual meeting?

        They are the ones who promote the paranoia that is causing the increase in purchases. How many children are killed because their parents have an unsecured assault rifle to "protect them from a gang of home invaders" compared to the number actually killed or even involved in such incidents?

        "Who stood against President Obama in 2012?" - The trivia question nobody can answer.

        by Lib Dem FoP on Thu Jan 31, 2013 at 03:24:28 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  No Data on impulse kills (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Smoh, Meteor Blades

      Many of the points made about background registration is important., I have a feeling, if there was studies allowed, that we would find the free availability leads many with poor impulse control to grab a weapon when they get angry or depressed and use it to kill.

      Even being scared of someone, leads to impulse kills.

      Looking at all the murder suicides that we have now, I have to believe many of these would never happen if guns weren't right there or a a few minutes away in a gun store or a gun show.

      But that's just me. I have no data to prove this theory. Neither does anyone else. As MB suggested, it seems it will be far easier to plan for a passing laws that help us reach an end point sometime down the road.

      All the AWB2 threat is doing is causing gun sales to skyrocket just as they did in 1994, except this time there is the internet and the economy is much weaker even after the 90-91 recession. Sales are through the roof.

      It's pretty bad when just talking about the issue allows GOPer leaders to send out emails saying "they are coming for your guns - if you send $25.00 today, I'll make certain they won't get it". The threat of AWB2 is making people more money than one could imagine. Just the remote possibility. This is a wet dream for those who profit off of insanity.

      This issue really calls for small bills. Many of them.

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