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View Diary: Breaking: Cardinal Roger Mahony removed from duties (150 comments)

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  •  It's because of the tendency to identify one's (13+ / 0-)

    religion by social background with it instead of by cognitive alignment with it.  The way it should work is "I have thought about it and realize that I agree with this religion's claims so therefore I am going to call myself a member of it" when instead it's a much more tribalist thinking most of the time.  Most of the time it's, "I am going to call myself a member of this religion because its my cultural background."  

    The idea that "everyone in this family including you is a member of this religion" is drilled into people's heads at such a young age of childhood that thinking it becomes as deeply ingrained as one's accent.  You learn what religion you are told you already "believe in" almost as soon as you have acquired the language skills in your childhood to understand the words being used to explain it.  (And, sadly, even before that, as parents will usually start teaching their religion to their kids even at the young age where they have to alter the message to make it fit into more simplistic terms their child's' development is ready for - hence the popularity of childrens' religious books.)

    What this causes later on in adulthood is the thinking along the lines of this: "I KNOW I'm a member of this religion no matter what comes along, forever and ever.  If there's something the church of this religion is doing that shows its beliefs don't align with my own, this discrepancy between what I believe and what my religion believes must be a thing that is repairable by something more minor than me leaving the religion.  (And therefore completely redefining who I am from the ground up.)"

    The practice of teaching very small children that they are already members of a religion by birth before they have made that decision on their own is at the root of why people who hate what a religion is doing still give it support anyway.

    •  Yea I get all that... (11+ / 0-)

      And I do try...I REALLY do try to not be anti-religious and specifically anti-catholic.  But seriously?  There comes a point when you have to throw your hands up and say, no.  This particular 'moral authority' has squandered away any possible excuse for their reprehensible behavior and walk away despite what they might have gown up with and despite what they provide for the rank and file memebers.  

      bah...I should just leave this topic alone before I start calling people names...the thread is really stretched at this point.

    •  Imagine the upsurge to Quaker and (2+ / 0-)

      Buddhist !

      If people thought about what constitutes a religion.

      But yes, it's tribal.

      Guns-and-babies kind of tribal.

      "Have you left no sense of decency, sir, at long last?" Army Attorney to Sen. McCarthy, 1954. "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012.

      by bontemps2012 on Fri Feb 01, 2013 at 09:28:10 AM PST

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    •  Well... (2+ / 0-)
      The practice of teaching very small children that they are already members of a religion by birth before they have made that decision on their own is at the root of why people who hate what a religion is doing still give it support anyway.
      I'm shifting the religious perspective somewhat but there is a big sign in front of a large Baptist church in a nearby community that advertises the church's preschool program.  It has a picture of a fishing pole with little fish swimming below and on a line from the pole is a huge,sharp hook.

      I can't even look at that sign.  Somebody is at least honest in what they are trying to accomplish with their preschool program.  I'm sure they set the hook in deep.  Judging by the fact that Obama got %17 of the vote here in N Georgia leads me to believe that the program is working famously.

      "Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God"-Thomas Jefferson.

      by philipogog on Fri Feb 01, 2013 at 10:26:49 AM PST

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      •  The direct involvement of churches in politics (0+ / 0-)

        is a thing that is supposed to be illegal (or, more accurately its legal only if the church in question is willing to stop being a tax-free organization.  Staying out of politics is, on paper anyway, a pre-requisite of being granted that tax free status.).

        But as has been proved recently by several court cases on the matter that got stonewalled by judges who didn't want to hear the cases, that law isn't being enforced.  I suspect it's because nobody with an elected or appointed government position wants to be known as the person who went after a church.   When your job is elected by the public or appointed by someone who in turn is elected by the public, then you can be fired for doing your job correctly if what your job entails is unpopular.  (Which removing a church's tax exemption certainly would be.  All the other churches, even the ones ideologically opposed to the church in question, would still rally behind the church it happened to in order to try to stop setting the precedent that their activities could be subject to the same investigation too.)

        The real cause at the root of the rise of neo-conservatism is the rise of the megachurch.  Nowhere else is so efficient at indoctrinating LOTS of people at the same time en masse to believe that one is morally required to chose a particular preferred political view.

        And then add in the fact that the meme "have lots of kids and birth control is evil" is a very powerful one if you can pass it on to your children.   (After just a few generations like this you can "win" the argument at the polling booth through the exponential population growth of your faction.)

    •  However, a reality the church is (0+ / 0-)

      facing is a badly decimated membership. The decreasing numbers include new priests. They have been closing a lot of churches.

      One of the other hooks the RCC has is the rosary. A Colorado Springs priest some time ago - late 90's? - was promoting the 'centering power' of saying the rosary.  Looking at his explanation was quite an insight. It achieves an effect like meditation does in calming and focusing the mind. Meditators understand it is the practice. RC's mostly credit the church and Jesus. The priest did not disrupt that connection, just seemed to be getting the lapsed to resume the practice, to get them back in the fold.

      "People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed and redeemed; never throw out anyone. " Audrey Hepburn "A Beautiful Woman"

      by Ginny in CO on Fri Feb 01, 2013 at 01:35:27 PM PST

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      •  Well I left out my objection to the early (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        NM Ward Chair, coquiero

        age of indoctrination, rooted in two major early childhood brain development periods.

        3- 5. Children ask 300 to 400 questions per day. While it is basic to the tremendous amount of knowledge they acquire before they get to Kindergarten, it is essential to learning critical thinking skills. Learning to question refines the skill, leading to more success, more use. One of the most common experiences I have heard that led someone to give up the RCC early was having religious questions shut down or punished. Even that young they saw it as a way to control their minds and stuff in the doctrine that wasn't all that good.

        Age 7 is when the mind can accurately differentiate between reality and imagination or illusion. That confirmation happens at 7 is my absolute conviction that the success of early indoctrination is in that practice. The Jesuits had a saying to the effect of 'Give us a child until age seven and  he will be a Christian for life."

        When a new friend first explained Original Sin to me at ~ age 6, I rejected it for two reasons immediately. Forbidding the search for knowledge and punishing all the descendants of the transgressors. Figuring out the indoctrination piece helped me to understand why people could worship a god who would do that.

        "People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed and redeemed; never throw out anyone. " Audrey Hepburn "A Beautiful Woman"

        by Ginny in CO on Fri Feb 01, 2013 at 01:58:41 PM PST

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