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View Diary: GunFAIL IV (199 comments)

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  •  It is an 'A' or 'B' question. (0+ / 0-)

    If you want "an economy and nation that doesn't leave children on the outside looking in when it comes to non-crime opportunities to do OK for themselves and have lives worth living" then you need to focus on those policies, instead of an ineffective bill that won't pass, and will lose elections.

    You have a choice. Gun Control is the wrong one for a myriad of reasons.

    Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

    by FrankRose on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 09:40:12 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Yup , defeatist . (4+ / 0-)

      Can't be done ...
      "is the wrong one"

      Australia , England , Israel .
      They all have done what we need to do .
      They have moved way ahead of us ,
      they are making us look like a cheap 3rd world country in comparison . Don't you think America can do what Australia , England and Israel have already done ?

      "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

      by indycam on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 09:55:59 AM PST

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      •  Finally something we agree on (0+ / 0-)

        I temporarily suspended my "ignore".  

      •  No. While trying to push for this, other things (0+ / 0-)

        like improving the econ, reducing poverty, increasing social spending, can't be done.

        "Australia, England"
        If you enjoy being videotaped 24/7 & being a subject of a queen, then they are better suited for you.

        I prefer the liberties of the USA.

        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

        by FrankRose on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 10:01:24 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Uh huh (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Blissing, teabaggerssuckbalz, koNko

          But oddly, there's broad support across the country for gun regulation. There's no broad support for improving the economy (since people have been fooled into thinking that the deficit is the real problem), no broad support for reducing poverty (we HATE programs that target poverty in the US), no broad support for increased social spending (c.f. the first two).

          So what you're saying is, we should stop doing the thing that we have broad support for right now, so that maybe somewhere down the road we can succeed in building up support for some other good things. When there's certainly no reason to choose to do one or the other, but if there was, we should probably take advantage of the opportunity afforded us by broad support to fix the one problem immediately, and then go on to others.

          Please, just be honest: if you hate the idea of gun control because you think guns are great, say so. If you have some other reason for opposing it, say that. Arguing that by focusing on it we're neglecting all the other progressive ideals is transparent hogwash.

          •  There is less support for gun control today (0+ / 0-)

            than there was in 1994.

            I disagree with the idea of gun control because I think innocent American's liberties shouldn't be taken. I oppose gun control for the same reason I oppose warrantless wiretaps.
            Other reasons for opposing it is because I think time would be better spent reducing poverty & increasing opportunities.
            Another reason I oppose it is because the AWB would be pointless, bare hands are used to murder twice as many people as all rifles combined. The rifles in the AWB would only be a fraction of 'all rifles combined'.
            Another reason is because I want more and better Democrats & the last time the Dems pushed for the AWB it was a political disaster.

            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

            by FrankRose on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 10:47:16 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Congratulations: You've found an example that (0+ / 0-)

        , on the surface at least, makes US society look safe and placid.

        Your mention of Israel sent me running to the numbers, and I was shocked to find that Israel seems to have set up a society where it seems that guns are handed out to the most murderous citizens .

        (note: all numbers thanks to Wikipedia, and however many grains of salt that may require)

        At first blush, things look pretty rosy:

        a homicide rate of .94 vs 3.6.

        Looks pretty good.

        But -- here's the weird one:

        .073 guns per capita vs .89 guns per capita.

        That's only about 1 person out of 14 with guns in Israel, vs a better than even chance that any random selected American will have a gun. While the numbes aren't broken out in a way to account for those who own multiple guns, it seems like Israeli gun owners are a whole lot more likely to kill their fellow citizens than American gun owners.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 10:24:39 AM PST

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        •  But don't both... (0+ / 0-)

          ...homicide rates include non-gun homicides?

          If 3/4 of the homicides in the United States result from a firearm injury (not an unreasonable approximation for 2011) and all guns were removed from all hands and no one who would have murdered by a gun was then murdered by another method (such as a knife), our homicide rate would be about the same as Israel's.

          One has to look at the number homicides in Israel and the United States that utilized firearms to reach the conclusion you did.

      •  Responding to these people (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Laconic Lib, teabaggerssuckbalz

        is real close to being a total waste of time--indycam.

        They want more guns--- but fewer regulations.

        And no matter what: DO NOT BLAME GUNS.

         Also they prefer we first provide solutions for world hunger---world peace----global disarmement--what is the nature of man?----is there an afterlife?---is there a God? get the picture.

        Then and only then---maybe---can we talk about the guns.


        Mayan Word For 'Apocalypse' Actually Translates More Accurately As "Time Of Pale Obese Gun Monsters."......the Onion

        by lyvwyr101 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 01:39:02 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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