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View Diary: Glenn Greenwald and His Repulsive Hypocrisy (190 comments)

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  •  Obama will be okay (15+ / 0-)

    you really don't have to knock down this particular critic.
    I believe GG's intent is to push Obama into being a stronger Dem that protects the constitutional rights of Americans and the human rights of those in other countries.

    •  The inner workings of the Obama administration (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lucy Montrose, Quicklund

      Operate at a different plane than the punditry of the blogosphere. The President has met with ACLU leaders and other civil liberty and human rights advocates. He clearly understands their concerns, but continues his policies for a variety of reasons.

      Republicans are far more socialist than Democrats. Just because they want to redistribute the wealth upwards does not make it any better.

      by MrAnon on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 09:21:53 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  That might be his intent (I doubt it) (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      joe from Lowell

      but his effect has been to pump up the false equivalence between BushCheney and Obama. He muddies the water on such things as "rendition", et cetera, and he's one of the Left Punditry that has been crucial in depressing Progressive support for this administration, particularly in the first couple years, leading up to the disastrous election of 2010. His was one of the voices that somewhat less focused Liberals turned to and what he told them was that they'd been suckered, that Obama was as bad or worse than Bush and that there was no hope for electoral politics. That the Left should stay home and "punish" the Democrats for their "betrayal". And too many people bought that idea without looking closely at it.
      And you see the results.
      Now, will any of those Pundits own up to their shortsighted screeds? NOT A CHANCE. It would cut into their ability to get published, cut into their earning potential and lose them their place as opinion formers.
      I'm not saying that there should be no criticism of the President, but stretching the truth, baldfaced lies, questionable attributions of responsibility et cetera, adding up to a litany  of ObamaFAIL that negatively effected the ability of this Administration to do the things we elected them to do, is worse than stupid.

      If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

      by CwV on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 09:29:27 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  well (4+ / 0-)

        this comment of yours is just a big load of bullshit, nothing personal against you
        Good luck.

        •  Thank You. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Diogenes2008

          SO well reasoned and well put.

          If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

          by CwV on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 09:40:15 AM PST

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          •  The argument you present regarding the 2010 (7+ / 0-)

            election has been refuted more times than I can count.

            •  That's funny (0+ / 0-)

              because I heard a lot of Lefties crowing about it after the election, "We really showed them!"
              That was before the reality of the situation sank in. Now they deny and deny and...
              What's your explanation for why the GOP swept the 2010 elections?

              If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

              by CwV on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 09:56:17 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Ignore the headline (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                JesseCW, SpecialKinFlag, pgm 01, raincrow

                read the results.
                http://www.americanprogressaction.org/...
                It was the economy, not Glenn Greenwald or other critics.
                Young people, minorities, moderates, all came out in lesser numbers than 2008 combined with a swing from independents towards the Republicans.
                All of which in my mind is an argument for pressing harder on traditional Dem values and start spending on jobs, the environment (more jobs!) healthcare, and drop this austerity we all have to eat our peas bullshit.

                •  So I guess you missed when Pundits like GG (0+ / 0-)

                  went after Obama on the economy and glossed over the fact that his efforts were being blunted at every turn by the GOP, right? Day after day, it was like a drone string on a banjo, constant harping on Obama's failure to majically fix the economy, overnight, ignoring the fact that he stopped the freefall, ignoring the fact that as soon as his first economic fix bill took effect, job losses stopped accelerating and by the end of his first year, got above the break even point, going out of their way to find fault with every accomplishment, to spread sh!t on Obama and the Dems while not actually mentioning the GOP AT ALL. And when called on that fact, the answer was, "Well we all know the GOP is corrupt".
                  Well fine. But then you give them a pass and slam the only other power out there? The only people that are in any position to fix the problems?
                  Then cry that the Democrats aren't responsive to your every whim?
                  And this started before he was even the Nominee. The slamming originated during the Primaries and intensified during the General. The level of Obamahatred at Buzzflash and TruthOut and CommonDreams and FDL and any number of other "Far Left" sites (where Greenwald was prominently published) was incredible even before he was elected and only got worse after.
                  That's where a lot of those young people, minorities and moderates were getting their information and the story they were getting every day was that Obama had reneged on EVERY campaign promise, had FAILED at EVERY initiative, had sold us all out. You don't remember that?
                  I sure do because I faced it every day for the last several years. And any attempt to debunk the layers of crap they heaped on, got me slammed and slimed, their favorite (non-obscenity-laced) curse, that I'm an "Obamabot". That looked like a concerted effort to depress Obama's voterbase and it worked. They didn't turn out. I heard a lot of people pledging "never to settle for the lesser of two evils again", to write in Nadir or Hillary or simply not vote.
                  Go read the comment sections under his articles on any one of those sites, it's disgusting and it completely refutes this CAP article. CAP, btw, has a reason not to scold Progressives for their "apathy", that is, that's their donor base. Don't bite the hand that feeds.

                  If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

                  by CwV on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 11:26:40 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

        •  You are correct!!! (0+ / 0-)

          Every single time a pundit gets something wrong, they all immediately own up to their mistakes. Indeed the most humble and accountable of all professions must be that of political pundit.

      •  I had a harder time with the Hamsher/Norquist (4+ / 0-)

        business during health care reform. Greenwald is hyperbolic and sometimes much too in love with pretty, inaccurate narratives. But he does make some good points-- and he hasn't thought that Grover Norquist makes a good partner on anything,  anytime at anywhere. So Greenwald is a notch above Hamsher on the trustworthiness scale.

        Real Democrats don't abandon the middle class. --John Kerry

        by Lucy Montrose on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 09:51:43 AM PST

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        •  That's a very low bar. (4+ / 0-)

          If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

          by CwV on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 09:57:15 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Is GG still involved w/ the Cato Institute? (0+ / 0-)

            Or is that only in his past by now?

            If he's still an active Cato participant,  that does undercut his credibility. Kind of like how Julian Assange started supporting dictators in Belarus.

            Real Democrats don't abandon the middle class. --John Kerry

            by Lucy Montrose on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 10:09:29 AM PST

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            •  Correction: Belarus reached out more to Assange (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mahakali overdrive

              than the other way around. As if they're trying to co-opt him. But thus far, at least according to that New Statesman article which is the first item that pops up on Google, Assange appears to be going along with the Belarussian President's charm offensive, and criticizing Lukashenko's critics. Which does NOT look good. Lukashenko isn't even a self-presented lefty like Hugo Chavez; he's a totalitarian who enthusiastically considers Stalin a hero and a role model.

              At least Anonymous is keeping out of that.

              Real Democrats don't abandon the middle class. --John Kerry

              by Lucy Montrose on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 10:22:05 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  And according to Greenwald, (3+ / 0-)

                he's not affiliated with CATO, he just wrote a few papers for them. That I can accept, since CATO has many people supply them with input, some of whom are clearly not Libertarians.
                But he does seem to be a Libertarian, as does Scott Horton and several others that the Left celebrated during the Bush Years.

                If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

                by CwV on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 10:53:02 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Because fighting for expanding Social Security (0+ / 0-)

                  is the hallmark of Libertarians.

                  He's a Civil Libertarian.  Economically, he's a pretty typical 1970's era Democrat.

                  "I have often seen people uncivil by too much civility, and tiresome in their courtesy." Michel de Montaigne

                  by JesseCW on Mon Feb 04, 2013 at 03:28:14 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

            •  Kos wrote for Cato. How do you feel about him? (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              CwV, pgm 01

              "I have often seen people uncivil by too much civility, and tiresome in their courtesy." Michel de Montaigne

              by JesseCW on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 11:18:51 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Didn't know that. (my mistake) (0+ / 0-)

                See my reply below. I'm pretty sure Cato only publishes contributions from liberals, though, for one of two reasons-- either as a punching bag or a statement of "see? we're not ALL far-right."

                Real Democrats don't abandon the middle class. --John Kerry

                by Lucy Montrose on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 04:22:19 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  kos has 'participated' (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              JesseCW

              in Cato Institute activities or whatever you want to call them.  Many liberals have written and spoken at Cato. Lordy and you folks call GG or anyone else who is concerned with civil rights purist's. As for saying Blackwatergog was another Lennie Rosenthal she did kinda of turn my stomach as her only interest was idolizing Obama a kind of personality cult which actively tried to stop any discussions of policy agenda and issues. She went after Greenwald because he wrote about the horrific abuses of power that started with the Bushies that this administration has continued, expanded or codified.  

              Talk about hypocrisy. Anyone who writes or blogs or actively works to shed light on this administrations horrible record of human and civil rights or wants policy and direction that is  democratic/Democratic  is painted as a traitor by some here. Combing through their histories and twisting every thing they do or write in the light of how it reflects on this administration. I guess it helps those who only care about the president and partisan victories, to blame other liberals, activists or even lefty voters who dare to shed a little light or refuse toe the line put forth by the double speak or thinkers. Not very democratic or Democratic to attack the messengers or sources who you see as enemy's of the Obama administration and it's 'way forward'.    

              •  Your entire argument (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Quicklund, Lucy Montrose

                is deflated the moment one considers that someone like Adam Serwer has addressed the same issues as Greenwald but doesn't come in for this kind of criticism (nor does he attract a fan club of sycophants).

                Do you have even the slightest curiosity about why?

                Gawd forbid that its because he does so rationally without all the naivete and bluster.

                Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is important that you do it. - Mahatma Gandhi

                by NLinStPaul on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 12:26:44 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Or, maybe, because he isn't effective and (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  shaharazade

                  doesn't actually draw any attention to the war crimes you're dedicated to supporting and defending.

                  "I have often seen people uncivil by too much civility, and tiresome in their courtesy." Michel de Montaigne

                  by JesseCW on Mon Feb 04, 2013 at 03:29:16 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

              •  So I was mistaken about the extent of GG's... (0+ / 0-)

                involvement if he just wrote a few papers. I had thought it went deeper than that. It looks like the difference between writing a few pieces for HuffPo from time to time, and being all "rah rah I love HuffPo's business model and pseudoscience".

                Although I do wonder if Greenwald's and Kos' contributions were held up by Cato as punching bags and examples of "know our enemy the loony liberals". Like Colmes used to be on Fox News...

                Real Democrats don't abandon the middle class. --John Kerry

                by Lucy Montrose on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 04:17:24 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Cato is a Libertarian outfit more than a classical (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  shaharazade

                  Right Wing one.

                  They're actually on the morally defensible side of some issues, like drug legalization and ending DADT and  waging wars of choice.

                  Many Free-Soilers were out and out classical racists.  Should Abolitionists have refused to work with them or speak to them?

                  Achieving political change invariably means having to work with people who you disagree with - sometimes passionately - on many issues.

                  "I have often seen people uncivil by too much civility, and tiresome in their courtesy." Michel de Montaigne

                  by JesseCW on Mon Feb 04, 2013 at 03:36:25 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

      •  well that lie has been promoted ad nauseum (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Burned, SpecialKinFlag, pgm 01

        to the extent that it is now considered hiderateable here, but I have no idea if Greenwald specifically advocated "That the Left should stay home and "punish" the Democrats for their "betrayal".  You seem to be suggesting that the 2010 Dem losses fall heavily on GG's shoulders. You got a link for that?

        As for your "And too many people bought that idea [from Greenwald] without looking closely at it."...? thats just laughable...

        If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution. ~ Emma Goldman

        by Lady Libertine on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 09:56:38 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  oh, please.... (0+ / 0-)

        The story of the 2010 elections is that the most conservative bloc of voters who had consistently voted Democratic until then stayed home.   That traces back to exactly one thing- passage of the ACA.  They also net stayed home in 2012.

        The problem with liberals and Progressives goes back to the 2008 primary where Obama and his core supporters lied about his moderacy/pragmatism/conservative instincts- though things like the McClurkin matter showed where he really was.  And the Iraq vote that gave people excuses to vote for him was actually based in a conservative rationale, denying the liberal one.  But there were liberals and Progressives willing to set the bar that low and unliberal for a time out of anti-Rightism.  That was going to wear off after at time.

        Glenn is a person somehow warped by his period as public prosecutor, unwilling to let go of a kind of legalism.  That's his particular virtue and his curse.

      •  Meteor Blades has HR'd comments pushing this (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SpecialKinFlag, pgm 01, JekyllnHyde

        noxious and debunked talking point.

        "I have often seen people uncivil by too much civility, and tiresome in their courtesy." Michel de Montaigne

        by JesseCW on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 11:18:01 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Is that a threat? (0+ / 0-)

          If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

          by CwV on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 11:31:58 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  You feel threatened by a possible HR? (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            CwV, JesseCW

            Comments like yours have been hide rated. I find them pitiful myself.

            How can you ever hope to win elections if you can't learn from the lessons of past elections?

            After losing an election, you have to take a long, hard and HONEST look at what happened if you hope to improve your chances in the next cycle.  That's tough to do without the honest part. YMMV

            •  Yes, I feel threatened by an H/R (0+ / 0-)

              because I've seen what happens when the donuts start flying and I don't want to get banned.
              And it sounds like that was a threat to shut me up.
              And yes, a cold hard look at the actual facts, before during and after an election are crucial to real progress, that's why this is such a sore point because I saw this happen live in real time and since then have watched people deny and excuse and dance around the facts, play it both ways, et cetera.
              The Left has a long history of circular firing squads and 2010 was one of them. If we don't own up to that, we'll do it again.

              If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

              by CwV on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 12:22:45 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Why are you saying "we"? (0+ / 0-)

                "I have often seen people uncivil by too much civility, and tiresome in their courtesy." Michel de Montaigne

                by JesseCW on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 01:10:24 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Because I have consistantly been Left of Center (0+ / 0-)

                  politically since Jack Kennedy ran for office and have paid heavily for my "Commie" Views. I consider myself to be a Progressive in the original sense of that word: that I work for progress toward equal rights and justice.
                  Why? You kicking me out of the club?

                  If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

                  by CwV on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 01:17:19 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  All I know of you is what you dedicate yourself to (0+ / 0-)

                    here, and that is doing all you can to combat dissent from the Left as you fight to drag the Party to the right.

                    That's not working for equal rights or justice.  That's working to harm workers.

                    That's fine - you're free to push your belly-up ideology.  Some people think groveling before power is the same as confronting it.

                    But you're not free to re-write history in your ongoing effort to get others to surrender with you.

                    "I have often seen people uncivil by too much civility, and tiresome in their courtesy." Michel de Montaigne

                    by JesseCW on Mon Feb 04, 2013 at 04:52:05 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I'm not "combating dissent" (0+ / 0-)

                      I'm trying to keep it real.
                      If you think that I'm working to "drag the party to the Right" it's because you haven't heard me on the subject of the DLC (RIP) or my ex-Senator Joe Lie berman.
                      The problem I have with the Left is the lack of perspective, the fantasy flights and the extremism I see from "Pure" Lefties for whom any compromise is treason (just like the TeaBaggers in that regard). It's unreasonable, it's not reality based, it's politically naive and it's counterproductive in the extreme. And there are real world consequences.
                      And to then try to play it off when you fu(k up is the height of folly because it is a refusal to learn from mistakes.
                      I would love it if our dreams of a New Age that motivated my generation in the 60s could be brought to be. And I have fought long and hard for that to happen. And we've been successful on many fronts. Not 100%, but when I was born, black people couldn't use the same bathrooms or water fountains as whites in many places in the South, a few months ago, I voted to re-elect an AfricanAmerican president. Have we conquered racism? No, but we've broken it's hold.
                      When I was in high school, I got the crap beat out of me for defending a kid everyone was picking on because they suspected him of being gay. Because I stood up for him, I was fagbashed. Now, my state has same sex marriage and the generation of my nephew (early thirties) and younger, are  comfortable with LGBT rights. Perfect? Not yet, but WAY better.
                      Birth control pills were illegal when I was a kid, nevermind abortion.
                      The word recycling hadn't been coined yet, now we have curbside recycling in my town because it cuts down the volume of the trash stream.
                      These are fights we won, again, not 100%, nothing is, but they are wins nonetheless.
                      Along the way, I worked to pass the ERA and learned a thing or two about political reality. That should have been a cakewalk. It is a simple amendment and it has a majority constituency and we fought long and hard and still lost. One reason was that we let the rhetoric escalate into extremism, on both sides, till it devolved into shrill screeching from the far ends that drove the center to the exits.
                      While we have made major progress in just my lifetime, the political discourse has dragged the Center way to the Right and I want to pull it back to Center. But that's not done by sitting way out in Left field sniping at our team. That helps the Right defeat us.
                      When our team does something wrong, and we do, it deserves to be chastised for it, not denied and covered over. When we do something right, it's important to recognize that and build on it.
                      The "Pure" Left has a habit of ignoring or denigrating successes, obsessing over perceived failures and is quick to jump to bad conclusions, suspecting the worst motives, et cetera. They demand purity in a world where nothing is pure, least of all, political issues that effect the entire population. The world is not black and white, it's not even shades of grey, it's billions of colors and that has to be taken into account.
                      http://www.youtube.com/...

                      If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

                      by CwV on Mon Feb 04, 2013 at 06:09:55 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

        •  Ha. The punitive authoritarian mindset (0+ / 0-)

          The irony, it burneth bright

          The Fall of the House of Murdoch -with Eric Lewis and all the latest Leveson evidence out now!

          by Brit on Mon Feb 04, 2013 at 01:08:42 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I did not HR it. However, that Meteor Blades (0+ / 0-)

            did so serves to illustrate how entirely removed from observable fact the claim is.

            It is a Right Wing talking point, one pushed by those who would like to see the Democratic Party follow "New Labour" into the dustheap of history leaving workers with no representation at all.

            Some Right Wingers prefer subversion to outright confrontation.  They so no reason to build anything of their own, if they can hijack what others have created.

            "I have often seen people uncivil by too much civility, and tiresome in their courtesy." Michel de Montaigne

            by JesseCW on Mon Feb 04, 2013 at 04:55:16 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

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