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View Diary: For electric power generation, the end of fossil fuel is in sight (215 comments)

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  •  You have misread the study. (0+ / 0-)
    During times of excess renewable generation, we first fill storage, then use remaining excess electricity to displace natural gas.
    If the renewables are producing more electricity than there is demand for, the study suggests using the excess to displace natural gas for home heating.

    Renewable energy brings national global security.     

    by Calamity Jean on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 12:31:37 AM PST

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    •  Really? (0+ / 0-)

      or am I pointing out he study doesnt say the same thing as the diary, Diary is pushing the use of nat gas peakers, study says the opposite.

      Diary doesnt say word one about storage, study does, page 62.

      FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

      by Roger Fox on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 09:37:15 AM PST

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      •  OK, maybe you misread the diary. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JeffW

        I don't see how you can interpret a diary with the title of "For electric power generation, the end of fossil fuel is in sight" as pushing the use of natgas peakers.  

        Now it is true that during the transition from 90+% fossil fueled electricity to 90+% renewable electricity that there will be considerable use of natgas generators.  That can't be helped; there needs to be a continuous supply of electricity.  But as more wind turbines are installed, coal burning and natural gas burning generators will be shut down; coal forever and natgas to sit idle waiting for the once every year or two event when renewables and storage can't cover the need.  

        Renewable energy brings national global security.     

        by Calamity Jean on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 08:22:32 AM PST

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        •  Because the Author (0+ / 0-)

          writes this paragraph, with link:

          Critics have insisted that renewable energy requires lots of back-up generating capacity, especially from some natural gas turbines that can ramp up and down quickly. New gas turbines have even been designed specifically to integrate with renewables in anticipation of increasing amounts of wind and solar coming onto the grid.
          IMHO Renewables can be built out to 100% of Americas electrical needs by adding Storage systems like pumped Hydro which we already have a about 22 gigs of, and Solar thermal systems like they are looking at in Arizona. And major grid work including HVDC for long distance transmission and offshore wind.

          In fact the DOE, Berkeley Nat Labs and the National Academy of Science tell us we can get to 20% renewables without grid work and storage, IIRC.

          And that is the gist of the linked study, except the diary takes a sharp turn and says renewables need nat gas peakers...... WTF?

          The study makes the case that the renewable load as a whole matchs up fairly well with demand, and storage systems are fine for any variation.

          FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

          by Roger Fox on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 10:21:35 AM PST

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