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View Diary: Watch: Zach Wahls smacks down anti-gay bigot on CNN over Scouting gay ban (65 comments)

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  •  The Scouts know they need to change with the times (34+ / 0-)

    I don't think the kids care one way or another. It is only some adults , mostly the old bigots, who are struggling with this. My sons chose not to do a religion badge at all and their decisions were honored. So next up, get rid of the ban on Athiests.

    Change with the seasons or wither on the vine. Chicago Parade for Post 9/11 vets on Saturday, Dec 15th.

    by lexalou on Mon Feb 04, 2013 at 01:30:30 PM PST

    •  The ban on atheists (13+ / 0-)

      Only holds up if Scouting continues to profess that religious belief is a foundational principle.  Now, granted - there is actually a stronger case for this within scouting than there ever was for excluding gays - a Scout is reverent, etc.  

      Still, it's something of an unworkable concept.  What does it mean to say, okay, as long as you belief in a religious framework of ANY kind, we'll let you in, but if you don't have ANY religious framework, you're out?

      In other words, the following beliefs are Scouting Approved:

      -Believe in One God, who revealed His plan through His One son
      -Believe in One God, who revealed his Plan through His Last Prophet
      -Believe in One G-d, who revealed his Plan through his prophets
      -Believe in Many Gods
      -Believe in spirtual striving for Nirvana - non-theistic?
      The following belief is not Scouting approved:
      The physical universe is the sum of existence
      How do you even articulate that, let alone claim it as a core principle?
      •  That is not examined too closely. (8+ / 0-)

        The religious aspect is a dont' ask don't tell kind of thing.

        But I have to say that this guy in the video is clueless if he thinks scouting programs aren't different from troop to troop.

        Since when is the party that embraces all the top tenets of Satan allowed to call the God shots?--wyvern

        by voracious on Mon Feb 04, 2013 at 04:41:57 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  You have to understand the politics. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tung sol, MPociask

        The problem isn't the BSA's Board of Directors--in fact, they might become the biggest advocates for change because they have a legal obligation to do what's in the best interest of the health and longevity of the organization.

        The problem is the religious sponsors.  I was once told there was something called the "Board of Advisors" made up of representatives of the major sponsoring bodies of Scouting troops, packs, etc.  This starts with the Mormons and Catholics and includes the Methodist Men's Board (not the UMC, itself, which is less conservative).  These are the neanderthals opposed to inclusive policies.

        The harsh reality is that the LDS has been running the BSA for decades because any time they don't get their own way, they threaten to pull out and form their own scouting-type program.  The main thing keeping them in is that associating with Scouting gives them the patina of mainstream American values.

        This may be on the verge of tipping because the tide of history is turning against the BSA.  No other major US youth program has a blanket ban on gays or atheists.  State and local jurisdictions have stopped giving free support and facilities.  The US Armed Services have repealed DADT.  Public opinion is shifting.

        The final nail in the coffin of this outdated policy may be corporate support.  I believe the incoming President of the BSA is an ATT executive.  

        It will be interesting to see how this plays out.  

        (That sound you are hearing is a paradigm being shifted at Warp Factor Infinity using no clutch.)

        by homogenius on Mon Feb 04, 2013 at 09:40:51 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  The kids in the program care. Bigtime. (15+ / 0-)

      My son is an Eagle scout and he says he is embarrassed sometimes because of the way they are seen toward homosexuals. Our troop does not discriminate and our charter organization supports our choice to allow gay parents to participate. But we live in constant fear that someone from the council will cause a problem. One of the coolest kids in our troop has 2 mothers and they are very active. We have to beg parents for help, why would we turn them away because of their private sex lives.

      And I want to also say that it is ridiculous to expect kids to know if they are gay or straight at this young age. Some scouts are 17, many others are 12. The huge focus on sexual preference is a distraction from what scouts is supposed to be about.

      The kids in our troop want the ban lifted.

      Since when is the party that embraces all the top tenets of Satan allowed to call the God shots?--wyvern

      by voracious on Mon Feb 04, 2013 at 04:40:55 PM PST

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      •  Exactly. Besides, who asks? (6+ / 0-)

        I meant that the kids don't care if someone is gay. Many of them are much more enlightened than their parents. I guess the ban is aimed at adult participants, and that has  only been enforced on a local level mostly.

        The Homosexual=pedophile mindset has got to be stomped out. I think too many find it to be a convenient hook to hang their bigotry on, poorly thought out and wrong as it is. Chicago Parade for Post 9/11 vets on Saturday, Dec 15th.

        by lexalou on Mon Feb 04, 2013 at 05:14:37 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  EXCELLENT POINT! (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        My best friend is head of the board of his younger son's cub scout pack.  He agonizes over finding parents to fill jobs.  His older son is Senior Patrol Leader in his Troop at 13 and on track to make Eagle before he turns 16.

        This is a very pro-gay Scouting family.  The mom's sister is a lesbian and in a long-term stable relationship.  The parents have gotten anti-gay mailings from the national BSA office and sent them back with scathing comments.

        I'm worried about what lies ahead because they are in Southern Orange County (Reagan Country) and the Cub Scout Pack is sponsored by an American Legion Post.  If the BSA passes "local option" and their local pack and troop don't elect to be inclusive, they will face a tough choice.  

        (That sound you are hearing is a paradigm being shifted at Warp Factor Infinity using no clutch.)

        by homogenius on Mon Feb 04, 2013 at 09:46:38 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Not so ridiculous. (0+ / 0-)

        Sure, many people might not actually know by age 12 but speaking for myself and the few other people I've talked to about this very subject we pretty much had our sexual orientation figured out in first grade. There's a lot of repressive societal pressure that people have to deal with. It may lead some people to live in denial or cause genuine confusion but sexual orientation is not something that just magically appears during puberty. At the same age I was mesmerized by Stacey in her green velvet play dress-up dress a friend of mine was gazing in wonder at the blonde curls of one of his classmates. We most certainly knew.

        What would be ridiculous would be for us to have tried to explain those feelings or categorize ourselves at age 5 or 6.

        At age 12 though ... I had the vocabulary and the insight.

        And it's so good to see pressure coming from within the organization by troops like yours. Both of my brothers were scouts but for some reason, by the time I came along, the family had had enough.

        “The right of the people peaceably to assemble, to consult for the common good, and to petition the government, or any department thereof, shall never be abridged.”

        by Marko the Werelynx on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 04:01:22 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

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