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View Diary: Assassination Rationales Then & Now--And How Awlaki Didn't Meet Any of the Criteria (163 comments)

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  •  It's disagreement on the 'even worse' part. (0+ / 0-)

    Same way the polls look on the matter.

    I see what you did there.

    by GoGoGoEverton on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 08:32:46 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Is assassination better than torture? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gooderservice, gerrilea, aliasalias

      Are people making that argument here?  If so, I would welcome the discussion.  Feel free to direct me as appropriate.

      "Small Businesses Don't Build Levees" - Melissa Harris Perry

      by justmy2 on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 08:50:32 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think torture is always wrong. Killing (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        FG, gerrilea

        isn't always. Assassination is a scary word like 'drone' so I suppose we could debate/discuss that but I would prefer to stick with 'killing'.

        I see what you did there.

        by GoGoGoEverton on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 08:54:00 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Killing is a scary word to me as well (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gooderservice, gerrilea, aliasalias

          but that is besides the point.

          We aren't talking about killing a foreign adversary in the midst of a fire fight.  We are talking about the targeted killing of an American citizen without an sort of due process OR even committing a criminal act.  The memo justifies killing those who are believed through intelligence to be associated with someone that has said something offensive at some point in time.

          Do you believe that assassinating someone that has not committed a crime or is actively in the process of planning one is not worse than torture?

           

          "Small Businesses Don't Build Levees" - Melissa Harris Perry

          by justmy2 on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 09:11:50 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  And in that case, why bother with torture. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            gerrilea

            Just assassinate.  

          •  Do you believe in the concept of stochastic (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Dr Swig Mcjigger

            terrorism?

            I see what you did there.

            by GoGoGoEverton on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 10:10:20 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Sure... (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              aliasalias, gerrilea

              See how easy it is to answer the question.

              Now you try.

              1.  Do you believe that assassinating someone that has not committed a crime or is actively in the process of planning one is not worse than torture? (for instance, the son of someone involved in stochastic terrorism?

              2.  Do you believe in assassinating someone with due process? (i.e. no indictment, no day in court, no non-executive oversight?)

              "Small Businesses Don't Build Levees" - Melissa Harris Perry

              by justmy2 on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 10:28:33 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Clarifications before I answer: (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Dr Swig Mcjigger

                1. Do you mean convicted or committed? What is your definition of 'actively'? Do you believe Al Qaeda is an organization that a state can be at war with?

                2. Yes, if they are members of an enemy military organization.

                I see what you did there.

                by GoGoGoEverton on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 10:36:07 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Clarification (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  aliasalias, gerrilea

                  1.  Not committed or convicted...as could be the case with those associated to organizations, but have not renounced said organizations goals.

                  2.  Thanks for clarifying.  So you believe in assassinating say member of the Black Panthers in the sixties after Hoover declared them enemies of the state.   Or the weather underground.   By joining an organization ordained as "the enemy" by the US Government, you believe that designation provides the Government the right to engage in assassination.  I couldn't disagree with you more, but that is the purpose of dialogue.    

                  I believe that American citizens have rights, until based on due process they have been proven to has committed a crime that is punishable by death.  But hey, that is just me reading the constitution.

                  But I know, the constitution is a historical document..not a suicide pact...yada yada yada...
                   

                  "Small Businesses Don't Build Levees" - Melissa Harris Perry

                  by justmy2 on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 11:37:13 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

            •  the concept of stochastic terrorism (0+ / 0-)

              only applies to white people on this blog. If you were to post a diary linking a radical anti abortion preacher who wailed about "the new American Holocaust" and "Murder of the innocents" and "Blood on the hands of abortion doctors" to a clinic bombing or an assault on a Dr., you'd make the rec list for sure, even if the Doctor didn't even meet the clinic bomber and didn't provide him with any specific guidance.

      •  That's not the point. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gerrilea

        Suppose it's not "even worse." So what? If it's "just as bad," that's enough reason to decry it, regardless of who is doing it.

        And, in fact, "even worse" or "just as bad" are neither of them the point. "Unconstitutional" is the point. (I might say "unAmerican" as well.)

        if necessary for years; if necessary, alone

        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 01:38:40 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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