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View Diary: BREAKING: For the First Time as President, Obama Will Visit Israel to Push the Peace Process (64 comments)

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  •  if not nation, at least leadership of that nation (4+ / 0-)
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    lgmcp, Smoh, isabelle hayes, Chi

    I don't have a link but most Israelis as far as I know support a two state solution and peace with autonomy for Palestinians

    kinda like how we voted for Bush (and his trumped up war etc) twice in a row...that's how I view it

    •  Takes me back to the day W won his 2nd term (3+ / 0-)
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      Smoh, isabelle hayes, WattleBreakfast

      I was trying and failing to act normal at a g-d- Steven Covey workshop my boss had roped me into.   I blurted out (paralyzing the entire happy-talk group) that I was having a hard time maintaining, because I believed that history would jugde my country harshly for this day.  

      "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

      by lgmcp on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 11:14:35 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Supporting a two state solution (1+ / 0-)
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      in theory and supporting a just and fair two state solution in reality are two very different things.  I imagine that what a lot of Israelis consider a state is far from that.

      •  Most Israelis I've met don't particularly care as (7+ / 0-)

        long as the two sides stop blowing each other up and they're able to go about their lives.

        •  That's good to hear (1+ / 0-)
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          Although I'd imagine that once details are discussed those numbers would change, possibly drastically.

          •  depends on the year, depends on the political (6+ / 0-)
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            AoT, jplanner, Chi, JNEREBEL, lgmcp, Hey338Too

            situation, depends on the perceived threat.

            Coming off of high-terrorism years such as 2002, you're not going to see much popular sentiment for what they used to call 'land for peace' (not sure if they still do) at all.

            But around the early 90s, there was more of a will to move things forward...I think the 1st intefada (generally nonviolent) also helped significantly--as opposed to the violent 2nd intefada which was far more of a direct threat.

            •  I remember that. The people got tired sadly (0+ / 0-)
              •  but remember Rabin was assassinated in 95 (1+ / 0-)
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                only 2 years after the Oslo accords.  Yeah, they weren't perfect and left some big-ass issues (e.g,. Jerusalem) to be handled 'down the road', but there WAS much  more international goodwill towards Israel at the time (remember they didn't retaliate during the Gulf War), and some genuine prospects for peace.

                •  then came the (2nd?)Intifada (2+ / 0-)
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                  bevenro, lgmcp

                  it seems like...from the outside view anyway..that all the intifadas did was to harden Israeli's hearts (in general). Feeling threatened shuts people down.
                  I remember at the time hoping that would do some massive passive resistance thing all togeather that no one could ignore. People on Kos when I said similar recently got on me "the Palestinians DO do passive are blaming the victims".
                  No, I just want them to succeed in what they want if it is peace and a two state solution. It worked in India and the US South.
                  I don't think it would work with this right wing government however...they'd just put more settlers in.

          •  you are doing a bit of judging repeatedly (0+ / 0-)

            on what people would think. Sounds like you have a negative prejudgement of this people. I hope you know that the Israeli peace movement, that works with associated Palestinian groups, is huge and that they protest the government.

            •  I'm not, it's true of all people that they support (1+ / 0-)
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              things in general and not the specifics that are hammered out later.  This is true of far more than just the I/P situation.  It was true with health insurance reform, and will be true when we even get around to seriously dealing with climate change.

              The question is whether Israelis are willing to support a state in more than just it's barest form, because the idea that Palestinians will accept some sort of pseudo state that is severely restricted and controlled by Israel seems fairly unlikely to me.

      •  why would you think that? (1+ / 0-)
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        they just want peace and security. They are just people, not more evil than others.
        Existing with countries whose leaders and/or prominant clerics (that are then praised by the leaders and never condemned for their words) that repeated say  "the Jews" or Israel (they interchange them) should be wiped off the planet....that they in league with the Devil, or countries that say that their own country has NO right to exist, probably feels impossible for them to feel safe. Because they are human beings and everyone would feel that way if surrounded by enemies. Even if it were their own countrie's fault OR even if their country shouldn't have been originally founded in that area. They are humans. That is how humans react when under constant threat.

        Before someone jumps down my throat for being too "pro Israel" let me say that I think that the settlements are a huge barrier....the biggest besides those that wont recongize Israel's right to exist and that I loathe the right wing Netanyahu government.

        •  They don't *just* want peace and security (0+ / 0-)

          And I think it's pretty obvious.  They want security first and foremost.  Israel is far more concerned with a few dead Israelis than thousands of dead Palestinians, which is true of pretty much any country and their enemy so I'm not singling Israel out on that one.  The US is just as bad.  The majority of Israelis would likely be perfectly content with a peace where Palestinians have no state, as long as the attacks stop.

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