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View Diary: Pulling a Mitt Romney on guns (121 comments)

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  •  Well, if the legislation is bad, why (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    maxomai, meagert, VectorScalar, FrankRose

    would voting against it BE bad?

    I'm talking specifically about the .50 cal legislation. Who wants to arm gang members?

    Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

    by KVoimakas on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 08:03:04 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  It is a vote against gun control (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      KVoimakas

      that I don't think the besieged people of that Chicago district are going to parse very carefully.  Agree that it is a narrow and mostly useless bill but the people in general, will not care about the specifics.

      The author of the diary puts the following in block quotes:

      Last session–nada. Kotowski had bills up to require all private sales with family exceptions have to undergo a background check, make it illegal to purchase a 50 caliber rifle, and make it illegal to sell a gun to a gang member. Munoz had the assault weapons ban last session as well.
      My emphasis with the bold text.  

      The diarist seems to imply that Hutchinson voted against the "50 cal bill" but it is not really clear from the diary as I read it whether Hutchinson actually voted against the "gang" bill.

      •  One has to keep in mind (0+ / 0-)

        It's nearly impossible to win an office in Chicago without a demonstrated record of being rabidly anti-gun. Even if the legislation is complete garbage, it helps your case.

        Yes, this is stupid.

        ‎"Masculinity is not something given to you, but something you gain. And you gain it by winning small battles with honor." - Norman Mailer
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        by maxomai on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 08:57:43 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Banning sales to gang members? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        meagert, FrankRose, happymisanthropy

        If that is really the way that legislation is worded, I have huge problems with it.  How do you define a "gang member"?  Do motorcycle clubs count?  What if it's a group that doesn't have gang in the name of it?  What if "gang" is defined as a group of people engaged in illegal activities -- in which case you couldn't sell to any employees of most nationwide banks?

        The point is, it's already illegal to sell to a felon.  It's already illegal to buy a gun for someone else.  Both of these acts are felonies and already have strict consequences.  What's the point of adding a stupidly worded law on top of it?

        And you just know that "gang member" is going to be interpreted in the most racist way possible by police, and in practice will generally just mean anyone of color living in the hood.

        •  Which is the reason GC started (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CydeWeys, happymisanthropy

          Keep arms away from the African American man.

          "The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced." -Zappa My Site

          by meagert on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 09:15:33 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  More Complicated (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          PsychoSavannah

          "Course or pattern of criminal activity" means 2 or more gang-related criminal offenses committed in whole or in part within this State when:
                  (1) at least one such offense was committed after the

          effective date of this Act;
                  (2) both offenses were committed within 5 years of

          each other; and
                  (3) at least one offense involved the solicitation to

          commit, conspiracy to commit, attempt to commit, or commission of any offense defined as a felony or forcible felony under the Criminal Code of 1961 or the Criminal Code of 2012.
              "Course or pattern of criminal activity" also means one or more acts of criminal defacement of property under Section 21-1.3 of the Criminal Code of 1961 or the Criminal Code of 2012, if the defacement includes a sign or other symbol intended to identify the streetgang.
              "Designee of State's Attorney" or "designee" means any attorney for a public authority who has received written permission from the State's Attorney to file or join in a civil action authorized by this Act.
              "Public authority" means any unit of local government or school district created or established under the Constitution or laws of this State.
              "State's Attorney" means the State's Attorney of any county where an offense constituting a part of a course or pattern of gang-related criminal activity has occurred or has been committed.
              "Streetgang" or "gang" or "organized gang" or "criminal street gang" means any combination, confederation, alliance, network, conspiracy, understanding, or other similar conjoining, in law or in fact, of 3 or more persons with an established hierarchy that, through its membership or through the agency of any member engages in a course or pattern of criminal activity.
              For purposes of this Act, it shall not be necessary to show that a particular conspiracy, combination, or conjoining of persons possesses, acknowledges, or is known by any common name, insignia, flag, means of recognition, secret signal or code, creed, belief, structure, leadership or command structure, method of operation or criminal enterprise, concentration or specialty, membership, age, or other qualifications, initiation rites, geographical or territorial situs or boundary or location, or other unifying mark, manner, protocol or method of expressing or indicating membership when the conspiracy's existence, in law or in fact, can be demonstrated by a preponderance of other competent evidence. However, any evidence reasonably tending to show or demonstrate, in law or in fact, the existence of or membership in any conspiracy, confederation, or other association described herein, or probative of the existence of or membership in any such association, shall be admissible in any action or proceeding brought under this Act.
              "Streetgang member" or "gang member" means any person who actually and in fact belongs to a gang, and any person who knowingly acts in the capacity of an agent for or accessory to, or is legally accountable for, or voluntarily associates himself with a course or pattern of gang-related criminal activity, whether in a preparatory, executory, or cover-up phase of any activity, or who knowingly performs, aids, or abets any such activity.
              "Streetgang related" or "gang-related" means any criminal activity, enterprise, pursuit, or undertaking directed by, ordered by, authorized by, consented to, agreed to, requested by, acquiesced in, or ratified by any gang leader, officer, or governing or policy-making person or authority, or by any agent, representative, or deputy of any such officer, person, or authority:
                  (1) with the intent to increase the gang's size,

          membership, prestige, dominance, or control in any geographical area; or
                  (2) with the intent to provide the gang with any

          advantage in, or any control or dominance over any criminal market sector, including but not limited to, the manufacture, delivery, or sale of controlled substances or cannabis; arson or arson-for-hire; traffic in stolen property or stolen credit cards; traffic in prostitution, obscenity, or pornography; or that involves robbery, burglary, or theft; or
                  (3) with the intent to exact revenge or retribution

          for the gang or any member of the gang; or
                  (4) with the intent to obstruct justice, or

          intimidate or eliminate any witness against the gang or any member of the gang; or
                  (5) with the intent to otherwise directly or

          indirectly cause any benefit, aggrandizement, gain, profit or other advantage whatsoever to or for the gang, its reputation, influence, or membership.
          (Source: P.A. 97-1150, eff. 1-25-13.)

        •  Yeah (0+ / 0-)

          didn't we just denounce Wayne for saying gang members ought to be locked up?

          the purpose of the second amendment is to promote a well-regulated militia, in the same sense that the purpose of the first amendment is to promote a well-informed electorate.

          by happymisanthropy on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 10:17:59 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

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