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View Diary: Mich GOP introduces bill mandating invasive transvaginal ultrasound probe for women seeking abortion (113 comments)

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  •  Yes they do, the law says that it has to provide (0+ / 0-)

    the best possible scan.

    You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

    by Throw The Bums Out on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 01:33:10 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  All I can honestly tell you (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Throw The Bums Out, SneakySnu

      is what I know from 20 years of providing care while complying with legal restrictions in my own state, and from intensive and ongoing communication with colleagues across the country.

      These laws have been implemented in several states, and their sponsors deliberately use the same wording, so that once a federal court has upheld the law in one state, all the others in a given federal district are unable to challenge the law in their own. For example, if Mississippi wins a case before the Fifth Circuit, Texas and Louisiana lawmakers introduce legislation with identical language, right down to the last comma.

      And until now, no state compliance agency has required a physician to employ a vaginal probe when s/he can obtain a high-quality image without it.

      Like anything else, that could change. But it hasn't happened yet.

      "Texas is going to shrink government until it fits into a woman's uterus." -- Texas State Sen. Leticia Van de Putte

      by moiv on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 03:00:40 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well nobody has challenged it yet but you can (0+ / 0-)

        bet that they will.  Also, what makes you think it will be a state compliance agency that would be enforcing it?  All it would take is a single police officer to go in and arrest the doctors on murder charges (because due to fetal homicide laws an illegal abortion is murder) for not using a vaginal ultrasound.

        You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

        by Throw The Bums Out on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 04:58:38 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The way it really is (0+ / 0-)
          Also, what makes you think it will be a state compliance agency that would be enforcing it?
          What makes me think that is 20 years of full-time experience in the provision of abortion care in an extremely hostile medicolegal environment. It's something that I arguably know as much about as anyone else who has ever posted here. You don't have to accept that statement if you'd rather not, but it is nevertheless true.

          I think that because of how state enforcement systems are set up for health care licensing and compliance. That structure has been in place for decades, in all states. That is simply how it works.

          Similar TRAP laws have been on the books in some states for years now, and of course various anti groups have made complaints, and tried to have clinics closed for alleged failure to comply. Clinics and physicians know this and prepare for it. After all, we have been dealing not only with threats of legal persecution and prosecution -- and of outright violence and other forms of terrorism -- for many years. We wade through protesters just to get into the office in the morning. They try to question patients before they enter the clinic, and again when they leave.

          For that reason, among many, everything we do as providers is meticulously documented to ensure compliance, from the time of the first phone call to the final follow-up exam. After all, any prospective patient could be an undercover antiabortion operative. In fact, that happens all the time.

          All that being said, there is no reason to suppose that any doctor or clinic will be legally harmed by these sonogram/waiting period laws. They serve only to intimidate and inconvenience women, and to make doctors do more paperwork. And, of course, to drive people on both sides of the divide into a frenzy.

          It's simple to close down clinics. All a state has to do is pass laws mandating requirements that are impossible to comply with. When states really get ready to shut clinics down, that is what they do. That ploy already has succeeded almost entirely in several states, and it well may happen in Texas this year.

          All the rest of it is theater.  

          "Texas is going to shrink government until it fits into a woman's uterus." -- Texas State Sen. Leticia Van de Putte

          by moiv on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 06:25:15 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Here's an example of a clinic-closing bill (0+ / 0-)

          Alabama Lawmakers Fast-Track Bill to Shut Down Clinics While Yawning Through Testimony

          Wednesday's most pressing issue, however, was a House hearing on a Targeted Regulation of Abortion Provider (TRAP) law that could close down every clinic in the state by requiring changes to buildings that are not necessary, and a requirement that all abortions be performed only by physicians with both an Alabama state license and with admitting privileges to a local hospital.
          Simply mandating that all facilities qualify for ambulatory surgical center (ASC) licensing will close most clinics. The necessary modifications (and in most cases, new construction) usually cost at least $1million. Abortion is a low-cost procedure, and clinics don't have that kind of capital. In a state where the entire power structure is trying to close you down, obtaining such a high-risk loan is next to impossible. Even if you do have the money to rebuild, operation of an ASC is highly expensive, and the cost of the procedure would have to be increased to the point that almost no one could afford it anyway.

          Requiring doctors to have both an in-state license and admitting privileges in a nearby hospital is another way to shut a clinic down. In most states, doctors who provide abortion care are not admitted into the mainstream medical community. Many clinics even have to have their doctors fly in from out of state. While those physicians might obtain a state license to practice, there's absolutely no way that they can obtain admitting privileges at any area hospital -- especially since religious institutions have become such active shareholders in the hospital infrastructure. They raise the drawbridge, and that's the end of it.

          If a state passes both those measures, and if they then survive legal challenges, safe and professional care will disappear within its borders. It doesn't make for sexy headlines, but it works.

          "Texas is going to shrink government until it fits into a woman's uterus." -- Texas State Sen. Leticia Van de Putte

          by moiv on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 06:57:11 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

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