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View Diary: "I Won't Mess Up Anymore!", a desperate child pleads (Updated) (151 comments)

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  •  This is why I oppose home-schooling (4+ / 0-)

    Most parent are pretty good at being parents, but a few are too mentally ill themselves to be trusted with a dependent. Often a schoolteacher is the only person who can detect child abuse.

    Democracy - Not Plutocracy!

    by vulcangrrl on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 12:20:33 PM PST

    •  So, because of a few cases of abuse (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      aitchdee

      when someone pulls out a child to home school, none of us should be able to do it? Isn't that like saying because a few people break the law and drive too fast no one should have cars? Or because some people abuse alcohol we should re-instate prohibition? Or how about because some people use abortion as birth control no one should be able to get one?

      "Madness! Total and complete madness! This never would've happened if the humans hadn't started fighting one another!" Londo Mollari

      by FloridaSNMOM on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 01:22:18 PM PST

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      •  I would venture to say that people who homeschool (0+ / 0-)

        have, at best, family social issues at worst sociopathic beliefs and tendencies.

        Uh ... unless you live in Kansas where all that is in the school system and home schooling is the only sane alternative.

        My over-the-top assertion was hyperbole, I will admit.  But I have seen very few children who have not been damaged in a social maturity sense, at the very least, from home schooling.  It may have been terrific for our agrarian ancestors who wouldn't have to meet a lot of people in their sheltered lives.

        It is just destructive and stupid in the modern world, IMHO.

        I wouldn't ban it ... but I might want to rethink giving such a family access to guns.  

        "Republicans have been fleeced and exploited and lied to by a conservative entertainment complex." - David Frum

        by Glinda on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 03:00:29 PM PST

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        •  Or maybe (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          aitchdee

          they have a school system that is failing their special needs child. Or maybe they are in the military and changing schools every few months or years is disruptive to their child's education and the stability of home school is much more beneficial. Maybe the child is ill and out of school more than in and this is a good way for continuity and prevention of truancy charges or kids being held back for days missed (there are districts who will hold kids back after so many days  missed even with doctor's notes). There are as many reasons to home school as there are home schooled families, though there are some groupings of them possible.

          There's nothing sociopathic about home schooling a child who's being bullied endlessly because of a disability while the school district does whatever it can to limit accessibility and an appropriate education. I would say, that if you have the ability to home school your child in that situation and you leave him in public school, that's closer to sociopathy than home schooling.

          "Madness! Total and complete madness! This never would've happened if the humans hadn't started fighting one another!" Londo Mollari

          by FloridaSNMOM on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 03:06:08 PM PST

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          •  Speaking as a parent of a child with special needs (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Horace Boothroyd III

            I find this even more appalling! Unless you have a teacher's certification in special education, you will do no good educationallyto a child with special needs. None. Period. Zippo.

            Don't.even.get.me.started!!!

            That you live in a school system that is failing its special needs children makes it even more imperative that you find other parents of special needs children, if necessary in other school districts and throughout your state, to ban together and fix the problem.  Likely there are groups in your state that have been around for decades that could use your help.

            This site is about gaining political clout for the needs of the common people.  If you hibernate in a home school environment you might as well join the Ayn Rand society.

            No special needs child has not been set back by being kept ut of the mainstream of society.  None.

            "Republicans have been fleeced and exploited and lied to by a conservative entertainment complex." - David Frum

            by Glinda on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 03:17:36 PM PST

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            •  Who said we were keeping them out of the (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              aitchdee

              main stream of society? We're just keeping them out of the bullying, pigeon holing, standardized mandated test taking public schools that aren't built to work with our kids.  Sorry but I disagree with your assessment of my teaching skills. My son, for example has gone from only being able to add, subtract, multiply and divide with no experience with fractions, decimals, measurement, or algebra to completing grade appropriate high school math. He's also gone from hating reading and being told he has no reading comprehension to reading novels both for education and enjoyment. He's learned history, current events, diverse cultures, chemistry, college level biology, social skills and has more friends now than he ever did in public school. He even has a girl friend.

              So we are going to have to agree to disagree on this. I don't have a degree in special education. I have however been teaching my son how to work around his autistic symptoms since before he was diagnosed. I taught him how to read, how to write, how to add before he even started kindergarten.  I think I know well how to teach my son. And he does a LOT better with one on one with minimal distractions than he ever did in a class of other kids.

              "Madness! Total and complete madness! This never would've happened if the humans hadn't started fighting one another!" Londo Mollari

              by FloridaSNMOM on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 03:30:35 PM PST

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              •  Come back to me when he's 18, 19, 20 and tell me (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Horace Boothroyd III

                how he's "well adjusted".

                You went for the easy route. You helped your son and only your son ... for the short term with blinders on for what it would mean for his young-adult and adult life.  

                It takes far more courage to fight for all kids like him and effect change.

                BTW: What you have described has been accomplished in some NYC school districts with strong parental involvement and all over the country in public school settings because parents had the commitment to facilitate great education for all students not just their own.

                "Republicans have been fleeced and exploited and lied to by a conservative entertainment complex." - David Frum

                by Glinda on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 03:39:43 PM PST

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                •  He'll be 18 in June. (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Glinda, aitchdee, Cassandra Waites

                  And he's a LOT more well adjusted than he would have been without it. Fighting the school would have cost me my job and my degree because his last year I was in that school 3 or 4 days a week, WITHOUT a car, using public buses that only went out by his school every hour and a half. And I still could not get him what he needed for middle school.

                  I'm not done fighting for all kids, though I'm moving out of this district now. I fought for all kids before he was in elementary school, I will do so again after. He doesn't have to be in school for me to advocate for disabled children. But he has only so many school years for me to make sure he has the best education possible. I only have so much energy and there's only so many hours in a day.

                  "Madness! Total and complete madness! This never would've happened if the humans hadn't started fighting one another!" Londo Mollari

                  by FloridaSNMOM on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 03:52:13 PM PST

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                •  Time Out (3+ / 0-)

                  Ok before this gets overheated lets discuss this.

                  in the end, it is up to all of us to work to have more inclusive schools that help all. Its better for the school and child.

                  however, many schools struggle with resources, budgets, bad parents etc. In our metro many aren't even accredited.  

                  home schooling for some parents is a last resort to help give their child a chance.  Is it as good as a full education with teachers and social structure?  No.  But it may be better then being routinely picked on or dismissed

                  rather then dropping out of the system, some can work cooperatively with the school to receive lessons at home. Others go on their own.

                  But they still need yo be advocates for better schools and fight for improvements so their need can go away for such methods

                  Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

                  by Chris Reeves on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 03:53:49 PM PST

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                  •  Pretty sure that this isn't getting overheated. (3+ / 0-)

                    FloridaSNMOM and I have been very firm in our opinions but we didn't take anything personally and remained civil ... more to FloridaSNMOM's credit since my initial hyperbole invited a less cool head than hers to respond.

                    Thanks for summarizing our two positions.

                    "Republicans have been fleeced and exploited and lied to by a conservative entertainment complex." - David Frum

                    by Glinda on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 04:17:19 PM PST

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                  •  For some of us it isn't a last resort, though (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    FloridaSNMOM

                    I support public school--I vote for every single levy that comes down the pike. But homeschool was always our first choice. My girls have been homeschooled since birth and are universally described as bright, friendly, charming young women. Homeschoolers often band together in co-ops so that we can expand our children's opportunities both educationally and socially; most of us aren't actually home all that much. :)

        •  I'm a sociopath? (0+ / 0-)

          Good to know. Thanks for the constructive conversation.

          (Every. Single. Goddamned. Time the word comes up even tangentially we get called names around here...)

          •  Get a grip (0+ / 0-)

            Reread my comment - I did not call you a sociopath. I simply pointed out two FACTS:
             - SOME parents have mental issues
             - Schoolteachers are often the only people a child comes in contact with who are trained to detect abuse and who are required to report it.

            Note that my comment was in response to a diaried situation where the parents actually did claim to be home-schooling a child, in order to hide that they were horribly abusing that child.

            As for the commenters who seemed to think I want to outlaw home-schooling -- no, I don't. I want to reform it. I think that home-schooled children should be able to pass all the same exams that public schoolchildren are required to pass in their state. This is to protect them from situations like being "schooled" by an unqualified person with a 4th-grade education, or a religious nut teaching them that all they need to know is the Bible. Also, home-schooled children should get a yearly meeting with a qualified pediatric mental health specialist, to weed out the cases where parents keep their kids from school to hide abuse.

            From the OTT reactions above, I guess I need to clarify that I am not talking about any specific Kossack when I speak of uneducated or nutso home-schooling parents. I would hope that home-schooling Kossacks are smart enough to realize that not every home-schooling parent is as perfect as they are, and compassionate enough to give a rat's patootie about the children of these less-than-perfect non-Kossack parents.

            Democracy - Not Plutocracy!

            by vulcangrrl on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 06:14:08 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I don't want my son to pass (0+ / 0-)

              "every single test public school kids are required to pass". I don't want to have to teach to their tests. I want him to learn how to write correctly and not just give the correct answer without real grammar and thought (see some of the diaries of late by teachers on the quality of standardized testing). Also, not all kids test well. Our kids aren't "standard". They don't have "standard" educational needs. It took me three years to catch him up to where he should have been in several subjects when I decided to home school him. He had passed the FCAT EVERY year. I don't know how, unless the school was cheating. He couldn't add and subtract fractions at the end of fifth grade (I pulled him out before sixth), and yet he could pass the FCAT?? He couldn't write a coherent paragraph, and yet he passed the FCAT's writing portion? At every IEP meeting they told me he was "below grade level" and yet every year he was successful on the FCAT. Why should I hold him to those standards?
              I'd rather he was doing what he's doing now, in 11th grade and studying Biology out of my college Biology book, with added information from Khan Academy and college lectures and webpages online. He may not know the rote answers they learn to take that test, but he knows how to think and articulate his ideas correctly.

              "Madness! Total and complete madness! This never would've happened if the humans hadn't started fighting one another!" Londo Mollari

              by FloridaSNMOM on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 06:29:19 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Forgive me (0+ / 0-)

              I mis-represented your statement. I apologize. You said, "I would venture to say that people who homeschool have at best family social issues and at worst sociopathic beliefs and tendencies."

              So AT WORST I'm a sociopath. AT BEST we have family social issues. Totally different. I imagine I'm somewhere in between in your estimation, so maybe I'm only a little sociopathic. I'll call my therapist.

              (My point being that I doubt you know more than a handful of homeschoolers. I know hundreds.

              Homeschoolers get this every single time the term comes up here, in any context, and it hurts; words harm. I invite you--in all sincerity and friendship--to message me if you're ever in Portland to come meet my daughters. My family is on the goofy side, but we're neither sociopathic nor have any more "social issues"--though I'm unclear on exactly what you mean by that term--than any other family. My girls are universally described as warm, funny, articulate and charming, not because I'm a super-parent but because that's who they are.)

              •  LynnS: You must be replying to someone else (0+ / 0-)

                I never said "I would venture to say that people who homeschool have at best family social issues and at worst sociopathic beliefs and tendencies." That was another commenter. But I'm sure your inability to read does not affect your ability to homeschool.

                FloridaSNMOM: If your kid is so darned well-educated, why are you opposed to him taking the standard tests? After all, if he could pass them when in public school, he should be able to pass them with your so-excellent home-schooling.

                When people have reactions like this to the simple fact (as illustrated by the article that prompted these comments) that not all parents who home-school are doing so in the child's best interest - I feel like I'm on Red State, not Dkos.

                Democracy - Not Plutocracy!

                by vulcangrrl on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 11:06:06 AM PST

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