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View Diary: Megan Phelps-Roper leaves Westboro Baptist Church (330 comments)

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  •  According to Scripture, the only unforgivable (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CoyoteMarti, raincrow

    sin, is blaspheming the Holy Spirit.  Matthew 12:31:

    "31 Therefore I tell you, people will be forgiven for every sin and blasphemy, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. "

    Everything else is forgivable.

    Matthew 18:21-22:

    "21 Then Peter came and said to him, “Lord, if another member of the church[g] sins against me, how often should I forgive? As many as seven times?” 22 Jesus said to him, “Not seven times, but, I tell you, seventy-seven times."

    Perhaps the WBC should not be forgiven (they are still actively sinning), but I think Megan should at least be given a chance for forgiveness.  

    Remember, forgiveness isn't saying, "I will treat you as though you never sinned against me."  Forgiveness is "I choose to let what you did no longer have power over me. "  You don't have to associate with that person or be their friend or think that they're just the schnizz.  But you can let go of your anger and hate, so they stop having power over you.

    Forgiveness ain't easy, is it?

    •  OF course, the Bible is such an authority on (2+ / 0-)
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      YucatanMan, Caipirinha

      such things - not.

      That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

      by enhydra lutris on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 09:26:20 AM PST

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      •  it's as much an authority as you are. not at all. (0+ / 0-)

        Wouldn't you like to be a pepper too?

        by AntonBursch on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 04:01:58 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Ah yes, the ad hominem attack, the last (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          maf1029

          defence of the indefensible.

          That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

          by enhydra lutris on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 07:11:54 PM PST

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          •  how is saying that neither you nor the bible (0+ / 0-)

            are a moral authority an ad hominem attack?

            i'm sorry, but do you think that you are a moral authority?

            Wouldn't you like to be a pepper too?

            by AntonBursch on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 09:08:37 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  You attacked me as a person, I commented on (1+ / 0-)
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              maf1029

              a moldy old piece of fiction written by an ad hoc crowd of volunteers most of whom had no knowledge of or involvement with tht which they purport to report on. The comment I replied to started off mentioning blasphemy, of all the ludicrous numbnuts horseshit, and then moved on to old "no credibility Matthew". The tiny fraction of the book that recommends forgiveness is putatively ultimately sourced from a character who himself reserves the right and expresses the intent to condemn some persons to eternal torment. Yeah, real forgiving.

              I, of course, cannot know anything because I am not the bible. Other than that, just how ignorant am I of the relevant bits of psychology, philosophy, sociology and non-christian theology? You do know my history, right?

              That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

              by enhydra lutris on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 09:51:25 PM PST

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              •  i didn't attack you at all (0+ / 0-)

                i just stated that there is no singular moral authority in the world.  not you.  not the bible.  not anyone or anything.  that's all i said.

                on a side note.  as it happens, i studied theology at seminary after high school when i was planning to be a minister.  i graduated and interned as a minister for a couple years, but then quit because i didn't accept a god who tortures people.

                that said, i don't think it's clear that jesus ever taught eternal damnation.  then again, i don't think it's certain there ever was a jesus, so, you know.

                Wouldn't you like to be a pepper too?

                by AntonBursch on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 10:32:37 AM PST

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    •  I suppose if everyone were required to conform to (0+ / 0-)

      the same beliefs that would matter.  There's a lot of preaching of personal beliefs in these comments.

      I'm happy others feel kind and generous.  The world certainly needs more of that in every way.

      I don't have any hate for Megan or Fred.  But to stretch that into kindly thoughts or forgiveness or putting aside the horrific damage they have done -- very much on purpose, willingly, cheerfully, enthusiastically -- is another thing entirely.

      "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

      by YucatanMan on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 09:59:30 AM PST

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      •  Allow me to repeat - (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        maf1029

        Forgiveness is choosing to not let the person/people in question have power over you.

        You don't have to like them afterwards. You don't have to associate with them afterwards.  You don't have to think they're great people, afterwards.  You don't even have to think about them, afterwards.  

        But you will be free of them, afterwards.

        And that's really the point.

        Oh, and I chose Scripture as support because that's what Megan believes - personally, I'm a secular humanist.

        •  I'd say "what we are told Megan believes." (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          maf1029

          I see the Jeff Chu articles as puff pieces, as I explained in a recent comment below.

          I'll wait and see.

          Meanwhile, the Phelps have no power over me. I'm not angry, have no heartburn, don't care what happens to them.  But I will tell the truth about my experiences regarding them because people need to know the damage they have caused far and wide.

          If "no power" is the definition of "forgiven" then that's already happened, long ago and hundreds of miles away.  

          I see "forgiven" as a more active act.  And that's probably not going to happen.  I am extremely indifferent about all of the Phelps. Indifferent.  

          "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

          by YucatanMan on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 02:56:52 PM PST

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          •  Sure didn't read as "indifferent." (0+ / 0-)

            There's still a lot of emotion attached to the actions the Westboro church inflicted on you.

            But, if you say so, then I'll believe you.

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