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View Diary: There is nothing more that can be said (191 comments)

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  •  Self defense? (33+ / 0-)

    I was a gun owner from the age I was legally allowed to own one in my state (21) until recently. A man who raped me had just gotten out of prison, and considering I was the one who put him there I had good reason to think he might come after me. I knew he was capable of killing me since he came pretty darn close to it before. I found out a few months ago that he is now dead (murdered, ironically). If he was still alive, I would probably still own the gun, just in case. There are other women here who have similar reasons for owning guns-2 I know of off the top of my head, Bailey2001 and Kitsap River, who left the site because she was called a murderer, among other things.

    There are legitimate reasons for private gun ownership. There are no legitimate reason, however, to own an assault rifle that is capable of killing 26 people in 10 minutes. There is no legitimate reason for not having universal background checks on all sales. No legitimate reason to possess a 30 round magazine, or a 100 round drum. Most people agree on these things, even gun owners. This would seem to be a good place to start.

    You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

    by SwedishJewfish on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 12:10:41 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  yeah (9+ / 0-)

      mb had a similarly terrifying reason, many years ago. i would regulate so that people have to prove they have a valid reason. in my book, you and he both easily would have met the standard.

      The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

      by Laurence Lewis on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 12:21:33 AM PST

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      •  The problem with that is then you are asking (8+ / 0-)

        people who've experienced a trauma to re-live that trauma. I think guns as self defense are, for the most part, an ineffective solution. But I don't feel like it's my place to take away the option. I do think, however, that there should be some meaningful requirements for gun ownership, and that if you have a gun for self-defense, and you haven't passed safety requirements, then odds are your gun is not for self-defense so much as an illusion of safety that will potentially end very badly.

        •  if they're buying the gun for self-protection (6+ / 0-)

          then they're reliving it, already.

          The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

          by Laurence Lewis on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 03:47:48 AM PST

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        •  I'd say that guns for self-defense are (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SwedishJewfish, zett

          ONE potential answer among a wide range of potential tools (and knowledge), but it is not THE answer. Gun ownership carries a lot of responsibilities and some people just do not want to take those responsibilities and they should not be browbeaten into it.

          •  No should those who are willing (0+ / 0-)

            to take on the responsibility be told that they can't.  

            The thing is that many people who don't agree with this point of view are more than happy to exploit the tragedy to further their agenda, which is even more despicable than what Adam Lanza did.

        •  I agree with this in its entirety (7+ / 0-)

          In my state (CT) there were mandatory gun-safety classes I had to pass before I could get a permit. I would have actually felt more comfortable if there were more.

          I also found that over time, the gun became so much of a crutch that I could not leave my house without it. And carrying a gun means the constant awareness, you have in your possession something that is capable of killing another human being in an instant, and that was never something I got used to. It also made me paranoid, looking for his face in every crowd, coming up with scenarios in my head and playing them out, trying to picture myself shooting another human being. It heightened my fear, and kept me trapped in it. Getting rid of it was a cathartic act-it was saying once and for all, I will not live in fear anymore. Those days are over.

          But, I'm glad that was my choice, and not something anyone forced on me. There is a lot of talk about new restrictions based on mental health, which in addition to seeming like a red herring (there is scant evidence of a causal link between gun violence and mental illness,and where it exists are in the most extreme disorders in which people are out of touch with reality) it makes me worry that something like PTSD will become a dis-qualifier. It's annoying because many of the people championing this are on the right, and really could give a crap about helping the mentally ill, they just want to use them as a scapegoat for gun violence.

          You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

          by SwedishJewfish on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 07:38:00 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well... (7+ / 0-)
            there is scant evidence of a causal link between gun violence and mental illness,and where it exists are in the most extreme disorders in which people are out of touch with reality
            ...yes, if you're talking about homicide.

            One of my big problems with gun debates is how people blithely dismiss the effect of guns in the house on people who are suicidal.

            I'm still here talking to you because my parents did not keep guns in the house when I was 15. I've said this before, but they were able to sew my wrist back together--if my parents had kept guns, they wouldn't have been able to put my brains back in my head.

            And since my 17-year-old daughter inherited the depression (and, if anything, it's worse than mine), yes, I would like to see her prevented by law from having any access to firearms just in case she gets a stupid idea in her head and I'm not around to stop her.

            Firearm suicides COUNT in this discussion. These are all estimates, of course, but suicide-by-gun is estimated to be successful 85 percent of the time. No other method is over 50, and only hanging is close. Wrist-slitting? 25. Pills? 15. Guns? 85. Not having guns in the house is THE NUMBER ONE suicide-prevention tactic if you've got someone suicidal around.

            CoB, eternally grateful his parents hate guns.

            "Maybe: it's a vicious little word that could slay me"--Sara Bareilles

            by ChurchofBruce on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 08:35:34 AM PST

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            •  This is true (4+ / 0-)

              And no, I don't discount suicides at all. I'm taking a break from here for a bit to hang out with the little one (she has a snow day) but there was some data about this I found, showing how having a gun in the home is a risk factor for suicide, and that firearms are used in a disproportionally large number of impulsive suicides...I'll find it and link to it when I get back.

              You must work-we must all work-to make a world that is worthy of its children -Pablo Casals Please support TREE Climbers for victims of child sexual abuse and exploitation.

              by SwedishJewfish on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 09:49:06 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yeah, I've seen it (0+ / 0-)

                but I forget where as well :)

                Hope you enjoyed your snow day. I had one as well--my University shut down for the day. As did my kids' schools. I'm North of Boston, so it's just starting to get deep as hell out there :)

                "Maybe: it's a vicious little word that could slay me"--Sara Bareilles

                by ChurchofBruce on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 04:22:49 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

    •  I needed self-defense when I drove (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SwedishJewfish, zett

      a cab. I spent about a half hour writing about why, decided it was overly personal, and erased it. Trust me when I say that I strongly support that some in dangerous professions should be able to carry: driving cabs, "exotic" dancers, and tending bar in many places are the three jobs I first think of along with "cop" and "forest ranger." I'm sure there are a few others.

      Click the ♥ to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

      by mahakali overdrive on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 10:34:12 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  and there's no reason (0+ / 0-)

        they can't be allowed to, under a permitting process.

        The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

        by Laurence Lewis on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 11:24:14 AM PST

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        •  They would not award cab drivers these (0+ / 0-)

          This is a county matter, IIRC. No drivers were awarded concealed carry on the grounds that it was "not necessary."

          Our taxis didn't even have partitions between the driver and passenger.

          I would guess about 70% of the drivers carried anyways; no cop ever, ever questioned this when you went through a check point.

          Thus, it was illegal. But the cops ignored it. Shouldn't they have tried to oversee it? See the circular reasoning that created a circular, and worse, problem of less, rather than more, oversight?

          Click the ♥ to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

          by mahakali overdrive on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 12:06:16 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Here's the specific situation (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            zett

            and this is a bit (OT) but definitely should be reformed (even as I strongly feel that other reforms likewise should be put in place; this one would be helpful and is one of the few that I see as truly needed... along with giving guns to the residents of Svalsbard, Norway to protect themselves from polar bears):

            II Statutory Requirements (for Concealed Carry Permit)

            A. Issuance (Penal Code Section 12050)

            1. The chief of police or sheriff may issue a license to carry a concealed weapon, upon proof:

            a. That the person applying is of good moral character; and
            b. That good cause exists for the issuance; and
            c. That the person applying is a resident of the City/County, or is a person who has been deputized or appointed as a peace officer pursuant to subdivision (a) or (b) of Section 830.6 by that Sheriff or that Chief of Police or other head of a municipal police
            d. That the person applying has completed a course of training in conformance with Penal Code Section 12050(E)

            -- with cab drivers, it is A.1.b  that was denied every time. A.1.a was covered by a background check and bonding by the area police as was A.1.c. A.1d. would have been easy enough. They just said there was no "good cause." Hm... no good cause?

            This perpetuated a lot of people, who felt their lives were at stake, to carry illegally. The cops we saw daily knew we partially worked for them since we were sub-contracted with them: we dealt with checkpoints and post-DUI transportation, mainly. Because of this, they would never cite a non-legal carry. Because of this, it was not well overseen. Problems arose.

            Obviously, part of the problem here is also that cab drivers aren't generally unionized outside of a truly small number of areas. I would imagine this would be a central point raised.

            Click the ♥ to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

            by mahakali overdrive on Fri Feb 08, 2013 at 12:20:57 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  This demonstrates the problem with may issue (0+ / 0-)

              It comes at the behest of some politician or other little lord tyrant and whether or not they deem you of proper character.  This is the same kind of thinking that was used to justify things like racial segregation laws.

        •  The right of self defense should not be subject (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          FrankRose

          to the need as approved by some state bureaucrat.  Many states recognize this which is why there has been a mass transition from may or no issue to shall issue permits.

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