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View Diary: Iowa Republican introduces bill to define abortion as murder just 'cause (153 comments)

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  •  And Jewish Law knows the difference (10+ / 0-)

    In Jewish law (halacha), a fetus is an organ of the woman's body, not a person.  Abortion is required if needed to protect the woman's life, and advisable if it poses a risk to health.  It is not recommended at other times because body mutilation is not acceptable.  But it ain't a person.

    •  Judaism has evolved (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      historys mysteries, OldDragon

      while Fundamentalism has not

      •  It didn't need to evolve (10+ / 0-)

        The whole "foetus is a baby" thing started in the 19th century.  Pope Pius IX (Pio Nono) personally changed RC theology from "life begins at quickening" to "life begins at conception".  It was not based on biblical reasoning; rather, it was deemed "natural law", meaning that it was just the pope's opinion.   Pio Nono was an arch-conservative, godfather of the contemporaneous Anti-Semitic movement in central Europe, and the pope for whom "infallibity" was created.  It was his consolation prize from the cardinals after losing the Papal States to an independent Italy.

        Protestant christianity did not go along with this at all, save perhaps a few small sects.  The current evangelical obsession with foetuses dates to 1979, when Republican strategist Paul Weyrich, a Catholic looking to make a political alliance with the Moral Majority and other right-wing protestants, held a meeting with the Southern Baptist leaders.  The Southerns had just been taken over by a right-wing cabal, very anti-woman and inflexible, unlike the way it had been.  The SBC had actually backed Roe v. Wade in 1993!  But they decided to change their theology in order to make abortion a political wedge issue.

        This proves two things.  One is that these churches are not really religious bodies but political ones using religion as cover. That should have disqualified their special tax status.  It also proves that there is no real religious reason to oppose abortion -- it is a tool of politicians with no long-term historical basis in religious doctrine.

    •  And our Christian heritage is rooted in (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      historys mysteries

      Jewish law, no?  This is the first time I've heard this point made in any of these conversations.  It's a point that could be made more often I think....

      •  No, it's Greek (5+ / 0-)

        Judaism and Christianity share very little, actually.  As a Jew, I see the Christian "Old Testament" as a plagiarized work, not the same book as our Tanach.  The purpose of law, in most Christianity, is to earn admission to Heaven after you die; life is a test.  Faith trumps ded.  The purpose of Jewish law is to govern how we behave here. It is all about deed, not faith at all, and the whole afterlife thing is unimportant, a foreign concept.  (There is a belief in "heaven" at the periphery of post-Roman Judaism, but it was imported from the Greeks at the time, and is not the purpose of life.)

      •  Sort of, in the same way both US and UK law (0+ / 0-)

        are rooted in British common law.  Jews have the Talmud to go along with it while Christians mainly have the pretty vague New Testament that is much easier to give less weight to compared to the nasty parts of the OT.

        You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

        by Throw The Bums Out on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 10:45:03 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

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