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View Diary: When a Fantasy Becomes a Nightmare (97 comments)

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  •  Can't accept Dorner's perception of events at all, (43+ / 0-)

    even with LAPD's documented history when his perception also tells him it's justice for him to kill family members of cops.  

    Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

    by thestructureguy on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 11:26:58 AM PST

    •  You've nailed it. /nt (9+ / 0-)

      pre-Valentine's Day sale at my Handmade Gallery on Zibbet: 15%off scarves, jewelry, journals, artwork & more! <3

      by jan4insight on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 12:04:47 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  While I don't condone Dorner's plan for revenge, (9+ / 0-)

      to include the massacre of innocent people, it's clear he was horribly wronged on many occasions and in several different ways.  

      Those who are commenting without having read his "manifesto" (and supporting documents) clearly have no idea what the other side of the story is.  (The MSM clearly isn't bothering to explain it to their audiences.)  Those people should keep their comments to themselves until they've bothered to take the time to educate themselves.

      Unfortunately, there was no way Dorner could have ever prevailed against the wrong-doers.  The LAPD's systemic practice of covering up the bad deeds of their own members is bad enough, but the justice system in California has also become so corrupted that Dorner would have had no prayer at winning a lawsuit either.  Having his reputation totally destroyed and not being able to do a damn thing about it had to have been excruciating to experience, and knowing that his entire future was shot as a result makes his rage entirely understandable.  However, executing innocent people was never a legitimate goal the public could support; I wish he'd been able to come up with a worthy plan.

      "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

      by Neuroptimalian on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 01:09:05 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  really??? (15+ / 0-)

        You say "it's clear he was horribly wronged on many occasions and in several ways." How in the world do you know that? From his manifesto?  Wouldn't the fact that he is going around murdering the families members of his so-called enemies make you question his perceptions??

        I don't believe his rants about having been wronged any more than I believe the rants about supposedly having been wronged made by that University of Alabama professor who murdered all her colleagues.  When people show they are unbalanced and murderous, it makes me less likely to believe them, not more.

        Oh, and by the way, did you know that the last three relationships Dorner was in all ended abruptly in legal action?  Were they all due to police corruption?  Or simply because he's a paranoid, violent, and aggressive person?  

         

        •  just got finished reading an extensive (3+ / 0-)

          New Yorker article on the U of A murderer.  A clearly unbalanced person.

        •  I read most of the manifesto and read it (8+ / 0-)

          as part confession. He describes getting into fights when he was growing up. He is a large man, so it's hard to imagine that he was a small boy. He has poor impulse control, and believes that immediate violent response is justified, always. According to him a long list of people have lied about him too, all the way back in grade school.

          He claims to have lost all his friends, and his relationship with his mother, and his sister, all because of the LAPD.

          His stated intention is to instill fear and terror in his long list of people who have aggrieved him, and all of their family and associates.

          My take away is that he wants those who he believes have aggrieved him to be seen as POWERLESS to protect their loved ones.

          LAPD corruption and brutality needs to be addressed, but this man was not going to be a credible whistleblower even before he became a murderer, bent on revenge.

          •  If he had these problems (0+ / 0-)

            for so long, why was he allowed to be a cop or enlist?

            •  Is that a rhetorical question? (0+ / 0-)

              He wrote about his history in his manifesto.

              He may have many other traits and qualities that made him a good candidate to whoever hired him, promoted him, etc.

              He is clearly intelligent and is obviously educated.

              Your question might equally be applied to Bradley Manning - how did he get to be in Military Intelligence? In Bradley's case, there was an urgent need for people who were proficient with computers/data driven work.

              If we assume he got his positions through his own merits (as opposed to a family connection) we can guess that the military and the LAPD needed his other skills.

        •  Here's the thing: (19+ / 0-)

          while Dorner's manifesto may be an unhinged rant, the LAPD now seems to be doing its level best to prove Dorner right. No one is coming out of this whole mess looking sane, and that includes the members of the department who seem to have declared open season on anyone driving a pickup truck.

          •  When you're a target you tend to be jumpy. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            blukat

            Don't blame them.  If you want to volunteer to sit in front of houses and protect the people that are targets I wish you well.  The poor people in the pick up will and should be compensated.  The cops, depending on all the factors, probably will be disciplined.

            Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

            by thestructureguy on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 07:36:17 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  The cops who opened fire against unknown (17+ / 0-)

              persons with no provocation deserve prison time.

              That fusillade was unjustifiable on any grounds.  "Jumpy" doesn't allow you to do such a thing.

              These are supposed to be trained professionals who can respond competently in violent situations.  Instead, they panicked and shot up a whole neighborhood for no reason. None.

              "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

              by YucatanMan on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 09:40:10 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  sometimes well intended people F up (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Chi

                they are to blame but I am not sure about prison time. We sent our soldiers to Iraq and so many killed innocent civillians accidently becasue they were on edge and had to make snap judgements about safety.

                This time, uniquely, there was an individual who was hunting them and specifically, the officer they were supposed to protect. They were told the person was heading their way in a pickup truck on a deserted street (sounds like from description-it was early am). It is easy to see how the stress of that could have screwed up their judgement when they saw a pickup approach and might have done so in many officers. I think they are not used to being actively hunted, unlike soldiers.

                They owe thes women an honest investigation of how and why this happened so it doesn't happen again. They owe them, each officer owes the women, a heartfelt apology. And they need to compensate them for their pain and suffering and give a formal and public apology as well.

                And we'll see what punishment the officers deserve. That's what I think, anyway

            •  Don't blame them? (12+ / 0-)

              Are you kidding? They never bother to ask around the neighborhood if there are any deliveries during the day? They managed to find out a truck was heading toward them and didn't bother confirming type and color? They shot at the truck indiscriminately! And you say don't blame them? Of course I blame them. The whole point of police training is to drum proper response into the human lizard brain and these guys completely lost their shit when the just got idea of "push" (as in push coming to shove). They should NOT be police officers and should NOT be anywhere near weapons! There are those who will say it's unfair to punish them for one mistake, but I say to hell with that. They have so much power, the next mistake could cost innocent lives and their jobs just aren't worth that risk.

              •  Agreed! (0+ / 0-)

                If I were the father that found four bullet holes in his doorway after this incident I would be very angry.  The police have to be held to a higher standard than the average gun nut.  The right to use lethal force comes with he responsibility to use it carefully.

                That passed by; this can, too. - Deor

                by stevie avebury on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 07:22:17 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  I do blame them, they F'd up (6+ / 0-)

              compensation would have not counted for much if what they tried to make happen had. They attempted to murder the occupants of the truck clearly, with the amt of bullets sprayed.

              I do get that they must be scared and on edge and that can make people jump the gun. I do get that these could very well even be good and well  intentioned officers.

              But they f'd up really badly. It's amazing that no one died. Two bullets in your back while you are trying to do your job (deliver newspapers) is no fun.

              I want each of these officers to say to both women "I am so  sorry, I misjudged". The vehicle wasn't even the right color.

              Do you think they will hearfeltly apologise? That is what I'd want to hear if it were me or a loved one. And to be compensated for my healthcare and time off of work and anything else I needed.

              They are to blame it's best we don't undervalue this mistake.

              •  Part of the problem (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                xaxnar, OleHippieChick

                may be that, having militarised the police to a great extent, the US has not given them the screening and training and testing that would enable them to use their firepower correctly in all circumstances.

                In effect, these people are probably over-armed amateurs at the level at which they are supposedly working.

                For the first time in their lives they are being actively stalked by someone as well-armed and as competent a user of those arms as they are.

                What's more, he knows how THEY will react and he can use that against them.

                They are finding out the hard way that the uniform gives them some serious advantages over the general populace and even the crims they normally deal with. They have no training and no experience for how to work when they are facing an equal.

                Add to that the possibility that many of them ARE, in fact, acting illegally or corruptly in some way and you can add guilt to that mix. Perfect recipe for appalling outcomes.

                Until inauguration day The USA is in the greatest danger it has ever experienced.

                by Deep Dark on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 01:43:57 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  If someone puts me on guard (0+ / 0-)

              I'll set up a roadblock.

            •  I won't lay all the blame on the cops but (0+ / 0-)

              This speaks very poorly for the professionalism of the LAPD.  Obviously, the baddie is trying to provoke them (I'm sure he's aware of the limitations of LAPD training and using that to cause mayhem) and they're taking the bait.

              At this point, since there are likely to be a few other false sightings, I want to know what they plan to do to prevent this.  And how they plan to bring this psycho in.  This means they have to cut out the games and the coverups.

        •  Couldn't the answer to this (0+ / 0-)

          "Were they all due to police corruption?  Or simply because he's a paranoid, violent, and aggressive person?" be a combination of things? An easily unhinged person who is pushed to the edge?

      •  Clear he was wronged? How is it clear? I'm (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Aquarius40, KateCrashes

        serious.  Why is it clear to you?  

        Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

        by thestructureguy on Sat Feb 09, 2013 at 07:32:59 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  The man is unhinged (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        xaxnar

        It's no secret that there are many instances of police brutality that the LAPD covers up.  So his "manifesto" doesn't tell us anything we don't already know (we don't even know if any of this happened or not; it's pretty easy to take documented instances and make up a credible story).  In the meantime, his case is essentially rendered moot by the fact that he elected to go on a shooting spree.

        I'd suggest that a huge part of the LAPD's problem is the kind of people they recruit; Mr. Donner is clearly an example of the problem.

    •  Not that I trust him (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Nance, OleHippieChick

      But workplace abuse can drive sane people crazy.

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