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View Diary: NYT takedown of AKC details their depravity (27 comments)

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  •  I agree with you to a point; (5+ / 0-)

    not all pets need to be pure breds but it certainly helps to know their history i.e. their parentage and their circumstances.

    I find it ironic that the article on which this diary is based looks to the ASPCA for guidance/comments.

    I find the ASPCA loathsome, for their ads which pull on the heartstrings in order to get money from saps like us.

    As detailed in this article from CBS News: http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/...

    The AKC is a registrant of purebred animals;it is not an enforcement agency.

    Further, puppy mill breeders tend to sell puppies as "registerable", meaning they don't have papers.

    Don't buy from puppy mills. Spay and neuter your pets.

    •  bullshit (0+ / 0-)

      the aspca is loathsome but you have no comment about the despicable AKC.  sounds like you've got a dog in the game, pun intended.  

      you know damn well that the AKC is complicit to rampant torture and abuse of animals.

      shame on you.

      Stop Prohibition, Start Harm Reduction

      by gnostradamus on Mon Feb 11, 2013 at 04:46:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sounds like we need to agree on a lexicon before (0+ / 0-)

        starting a sane, respectful conversation. Hyperbole like, ' complicit to rampant torture and abuse of animals.', 'loathsome' and 'despicable' is not generally helpful towards that end.

        No one approach is always right and not many things are irretrievably wrong, so trying to paint with such a broad brush in order to whitewash any shortcomings in the argument is a common tactic.

        I believe in considering the source and doing independent research, as do many Kossacks, so understand many of us are not likely to take your obviously biased word at face value.

        Information is abundant, wisdom is scarce. ~The Druid.
        ~Ideals aren't goals, they're navigation aids.~

        by FarWestGirl on Mon Feb 11, 2013 at 05:49:41 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  uh what? (0+ / 0-)

          they lobby against legislation banning chaining up dogs, stacking dogs in cages where shit falls on the ones underneath.

          torture.  not hyperbole.

          wake the fuck up.

          Stop Prohibition, Start Harm Reduction

          by gnostradamus on Mon Feb 11, 2013 at 07:51:35 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  lol As I said, 'No one approach is always right'. (0+ / 0-)

            And 'wake the fuck up.', in the context of my comment can hardly be described as anything other than hysterical and deliberately provocative.

            Do you claim that the ASPCA and other animal rights organizations do no wrong? That everything they do, and all the people who act in their names, are above board and honest? That anything they do is okay since they claim that they mean well?

            They also solicit money that is not used as they claim it will be, their finances are opaque and they use some very ethically shady tactics, (blatant lying and some fairly extreme exaggeration, among them), to elicit funds from the well meaning unwary.

            But given the tone of your diary and response to my calm reply, I very much doubt that you are capable of a useful conversation. Good night

            Information is abundant, wisdom is scarce. ~The Druid.
            ~Ideals aren't goals, they're navigation aids.~

            by FarWestGirl on Mon Feb 11, 2013 at 08:07:31 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  more BS (0+ / 0-)

              you cite money problems with the aspca but say nothing of the AKC's lobbying against dogs being in cages or tied to a tree all day every day.

              bullshit.

              did i stutter?

              Stop Prohibition, Start Harm Reduction

              by gnostradamus on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 05:05:49 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  lol If you ever find yourself capable of an adult (0+ / 0-)

                conversation, I'd be happy to have one. Until then...

                Information is abundant, wisdom is scarce. ~The Druid.
                ~Ideals aren't goals, they're navigation aids.~

                by FarWestGirl on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 03:25:06 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  i get angry at obfuscation (0+ / 0-)

                  I shouldn't.  I lose the argument when I do that.  But it's bullshit when people do that and you know it.  You talk about stuff, i.e. me, other than the issue at hand:  the dogs shitting down on each other in cages at the puppy mills, the torture a dog suffers when they stay caged or tethered all day.  And the AKC lobbies against laws that try to address those red necks' evil, pathetic behavior.  And you know it but you try to deflect from those facts.

                  Stop Prohibition, Start Harm Reduction

                  by gnostradamus on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 06:10:42 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  So do I. I don't defend puppy mills, I believe (0+ / 0-)

                    that irresponsible breeders should be closed down. I do disagree with your apparent definition of torture and how it lacks perspective.

                    What I know is that 'throwing the baby out with the bath water', as they used to say, is counterproductive. Tossing all breeders into the same bin as the irresponsible ones is a bad idea on many levels.

                      The AKC has some very poor policies and many dog breeders have done rotten things in pursuit of the free market and profits. But: the AKC has also been the only check on many things that irresponsible breeders do and if they weren't in place, things would be much worse. I don't like the AKC, I don't like many of the nasty, backbiting assholes who show dogs, (or horses), or the way they ruin good breeds with their damned fads in pursuit of a buck.  But working in an imperfect world, we do what we can with what we've got. We're not going to eliminate all the idiots everywhere and painting them all one color, evil, is not going to get everyone on your side to take action. It's like the GOP going after everyone who needs public assistance for the bad behavior of a few who do scam the system.

                    Pressuring the AKC is useful, screaming terrible words at the top of one's lungs at the drop of a hat is not only not useful, it is counterproductive. Once people realize you are not going to take a reasonable look at individual situations and are instead going to lump all sorts of things together and try to get them to help you sweep the whole mess, good, bad and indifferent, out, they're going to tune you out. I guess what I'm saying mostly is that the world is not as black and white as it seems you want it to be, It would be really nice if people who did bad things would just stay cardboard cutouts that we can shit on and vilify and feel good about doing it, but that's not the real world.

                    I'm not trying to deflect from the bad things that puppy mills do, I'm trying to get you to see that even the people who claim to be the good guys have got feet of clay and need to be held accountable for their actions, too. Just because the ASPCA does some good work, it doesn't mean they should have a get-out-of-jail-free card for the sneaky, dishonest things that they pull. Any more than the AKC should have carte blanche to do whatever they want because they do occasional good things, too.

                    Peace.

                    Information is abundant, wisdom is scarce. ~The Druid.
                    ~Ideals aren't goals, they're navigation aids.~

                    by FarWestGirl on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 08:48:45 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

      •  you are mistaken. badly mistaken. nt (0+ / 0-)

        EdriesShop Is it kind? is it true? is it necessary?

        by edrie on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 12:30:01 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  oh, you mean the aspca that refused to treat (0+ / 0-)

      one of my rescued dogs because i didn't have cash in my hand or a credit card to give them?  i offered the nasty "manager" over ten grand worth of rubies, emeralds and more (i had just made a major purchase at the gift center and was cash poor at that exact moment my dog was in severe crisis.

      his answer was for me to go give the dog to their "adoption" facility - turn him over - and they would pay to treat him.  i raced over there to do it to keep him alive, however, by the time i ran back to the truck, he had died from what we later found out was a heart tumor.  totally unexpected for a 1 1/2 yr old apparently healthy dog!

      when i tried to go speak to the head of the aspca the same day, the manager came in and told me to get out - threatened to call the police if i didn't leave the premises.

      that didn't work. i sat quietly and asked to speak to the head.  his secretary came down, i related (quietly and professionally) what had transpired and told her that i would never donate to the aspca again (as i had many times before) because when MY dog needed help in an emergency, we were turned away.

      about two months later, the sf group had their big fundraiser called the "bark and wine" dinner... it happened to be in the giftcenter where i worked as a wholesale rep.  i waited.  when i found someone who was an officer of the aspca, (yes, i crashed their party), i told her what had happened.  she said "wait here!" and found the head and brought him over for me to share the story again.  his response was that it would never happen again.  why not?  because, they fired the manager - right after this happened.  am i sure i am the reason? no.  but i like to think that my persistance helped.  (along with the head of the s.f. animal control head who was absolutely livid about what happened and was friends with the head of the aspca - and who called him in my presence to let him know how gucci poochie and i had been turned away.

      i've rescued over 65 dogs (almost another one today until he finally ran back under his own fenced yard), i've had many rescues - both mixed and purebreed.  that ANY smug idiot tries to tell me what i can and can not have has a real problem.  if this keeps up, then perhaps a bit closer look into the rescue organizations that demand payment for adoption (against their 501c status).  there is such a maniacal effort by some rescues to get "dogs" these days that they go outside states and across the country to pick up dogs that are then misrepresented as being the breed that particular rescue is supposed to be saving.

      dogs - money - yep - and, when i say the breeders aren't the ones making it, then who is?

      just sayin...

      EdriesShop Is it kind? is it true? is it necessary?

      by edrie on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 12:28:51 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  you're right (0+ / 0-)

        the AKC does no wrong when they lobby against chaining up dogs all day every day, i.e. torture.  or how they lobby against dogs kept in cages like farm pigs, i.e. torture.

        look over there!  aspca!

        Stop Prohibition, Start Harm Reduction

        by gnostradamus on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 05:08:23 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

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