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View Diary: Tim Tebow aligns with Hatemongering Mega-Church (69 comments)

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  •  OK, then, an honest question... (2+ / 0-)
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    MaikeH, lostboyjim

    OK, you have a problem with those who leverage their fame as professional athletes to gain a platform for their personal opinions.  Fair enough, but that raises a tough (but honest) question, namely:

    Do you also deride Brendon Ayanbadejo (of the Ravens) and Chris Klewe (of the Vikings) for doing the very same thing in support of same-sex marriage?  Let's face it - Ayanbadejo would be a nameless supporter of Maryland's ballot initiative if he were not an NFL athlete, and Deadspin would not have been particularly inclined to publish Kluwe's article if he were not an NFL athlete.

    If you attack Tebow for "dragging" his beliefs and opinions "into the game" and for "using sport as a pedestal," then it seems to me that you can't give Ayanbadejo and Kluwe a free pass for the same behavior.

    If you want to "defend the game" from personal beliefs and opinions, then you can't just single out religious belief for criticism and say "get off my football field," as did mindara below; you have to go after ALL such things.

    •  I think he has every right to spew his nonsense (3+ / 0-)
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      skrekk, Ahianne, irishwitch

      I don't fault him that at all.  It's his right and I for one don't think it demeans the game.

      It does demean him.

      In the same way that Brett Favre sending a penis pic.
      In the same way as Joe Theisman hitting on a reporter.
      In the same way as people making wack a doo comments always have.

      Let him be a lunatic.  

      I'm just happy to reserve my right to say he's a loon

      Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

      by Chris Reeves on Fri Feb 15, 2013 at 08:57:37 AM PST

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      •  I have no problem with that approach! (2+ / 0-)
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        tmservo433, lostboyjim

        I'm just tired of the religion-bashing on Daily Kos, and it galls me to see it cloaked in what is basically "it's bad for the game" rhetoric.

        •  I'm not religious but (2+ / 0-)
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          BlackSheep1, lostboyjim

          I've known some powerful religious people in my life who spoke out for good, who served their community, who devoted their lives to making things better.

          I may not share their belief, but they share with me a love of mankind.   I have no problem with them.

          I reserve my criticism to those who cloak hate behind religious ideals.  :)

          Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

          by Chris Reeves on Fri Feb 15, 2013 at 10:07:42 AM PST

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        •  Let him be a Staubach, then, not a Danny White (0+ / 0-)

          which dates me and reveals my team preferences as well as explaining how public a part of his game his church preference should be.

          LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

          by BlackSheep1 on Fri Feb 15, 2013 at 01:56:50 PM PST

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          •  Danny White many times (0+ / 0-)

            put up better stats then Roger the Dodger. They made the playoffs every season he was the starter for a majority of the regular season games, including 3 straight NFC Championship games. He even pulled a few games out of the fire himself just like Staubach.

            They just never got to the big game with old #11 at the helm like they did with #12. Staubach also retired from the game as the top-rated passer in league history.

            liberal bias = failure to validate or sufficiently flatter the conservative narrative on any given subject

            by RockyMtnLib on Fri Feb 15, 2013 at 10:17:04 PM PST

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            •  I grew up on Meredith (0+ / 0-)

              and Staubach. I like Romo, too ... kid's got a nice smile, pretty good arm (owns the Cowboys records now) and can run around in the pocket, or out of it. Gets busted up a lot, though.

              But there's just somethin' wrong about having your punter play QB.

              LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

              by BlackSheep1 on Fri Feb 15, 2013 at 10:22:21 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Well he was talented at both. (1+ / 0-)
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                BlackSheep1

                You could also say they had their QB punt. I had no problem with him playing all 4 downs.

                Do you happen to recall their '78 playoff game against Atlanta? A vicious hit concussed Staubach late in the first half and knocked him out of the game. A game they trailed 20-13 at halftime.

                Doomsday shutout the Falcons in the 2nd half, but they needed points to win. White led them to 2 TD drives and they won 27-20.

                liberal bias = failure to validate or sufficiently flatter the conservative narrative on any given subject

                by RockyMtnLib on Sat Feb 16, 2013 at 11:14:28 AM PST

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                •  I missed the '78 playoffs (0+ / 0-)

                  we were training some Louisiana Army Reservists that year. Six weekends in a row, starting right after Thanksgiving....

                  LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

                  by BlackSheep1 on Sat Feb 16, 2013 at 06:24:27 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

    •  There is a difference (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      skrekk, JGibson, Hey338Too, Eddie L, irishwitch

      Tebow loudly proclaims his faith and shoves it in everyone's face.

      Ayanbadejo and Kluwe make reasoned arguments for political positions. Even if Kluwe's language is a bit...er...colorful at times, the logic is still there which is more than can be said for Tebow. In addition, both Ayanbadejo and Kluwe have made their statements in direct response to the bigoted rants of teammates and colleagues.

      •  Nope, you don't get to make that judgment... (1+ / 0-)
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        lostboyjim

        You can't say that logical arguments are ok, but religious beliefs (which, in many cases, defy logic) aren't.  Speech is speech, right?  They're all using their pedestal as sports figures to espouse personal opinions, right?

        You either support professional athletes using their fame as a platform for their beliefs or you don't.  It's hypocritical to pick and choose which ones to support in such actions.

        More specifically, it's hypocritical for one to do religion-bashing in Tebow's case--particularly when it's couched in "not part of the game" and "in everyone's face" rhetoric--while supporting other pro athletes who do the very same thing, but for causes one supports.

        •  Why does this need to be a binary hypothetical? (2+ / 0-)
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          irishwitch, sfbob

          Tebow has been proactive in cultivating this G-d loves me so:
          G-d let me be a quarterback (despite the fact that I only complete 48% of my passes and throw less than 1 touchdown pass per game in my pro career), and
          G-d let me win a national championship (despite there being over 120 other players on the team - some of whom were probably G-dless), and
          G-d let me win a Heisman stuff (because G-d loves me more than Darren McFadden).  

          While the others being mentioned were being reactive to situations and events in their community and country.  They were stepping up, not stepping out to make a name for themselves.

          I haven't been here long enough to be considered a Kossack, does that mean that I'm just a sack?

          by Hey338Too on Fri Feb 15, 2013 at 10:46:55 AM PST

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          •  It's binary because... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            lostboyjim

            If you cloak your criticism in "it's bad for the game" or "drags his opinions/beliefs onto the field", then what you're really saying is that famous people should not use their fame as a platform for said opinions/beliefs.

            If you're going to say that, then it IS binary; you must condemn all such behavior, even if it happens to champion a cause you support.  Otherwise, your argument is reduced to "it's OK for them to do it when I agree with them, but not if I don't like it"...which, I believe, we would all condemn as hypocritical.

            So, simply put - there's no problem if you want to say that Tebow's a guy who overdoes it in putting his faith in the public eye.  (I wouldn't disagree.)  There's a problem if, instead, you make noise about "using sport as a pedestal" to "shove it in everyone's face", because that's nothing new - and more than a few athletes have done so for causes we may support or beliefs we may share.

          •  Also, I note your closing sentence... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Hey338Too
            They were stepping up, not stepping out to make a name for themselves.
            That's your value judgment; would you have said the same of a pro athlete who spoke out against a cause you support?  Most folks wouldn't...
            •  To be honest, yes. (0+ / 0-)

              I want to know who the athletes are that oppose a position I believe in.  But the reason most athletes don't, is that they are afraid of losing endorsement money (or team support).  

              Tebow's "brand" is what it is, his endorsers give him money because of it or in spite of it - the Jets knew what they were getting when they traded for him.  He's rare in that regard.  

              So let some reserve offensive tackle or defensive end speak up on their beliefs, let's see how conservative or progressive they are.  THAT would be truly good for the game.

              To put a finer point on it.  As a Saints fan I pathologically hate the Falcons.  If I knew that Matty Ice was a misogynist or a homophobe, beating them would make the victory that much sweeter and validate my pathological desire for their annihilation on the football field!

              I haven't been here long enough to be considered a Kossack, does that mean that I'm just a sack?

              by Hey338Too on Fri Feb 15, 2013 at 02:36:26 PM PST

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              •  A Saints fan, eh? (0+ / 0-)

                I'd be interested in your reaction to this 2010 article, published by the news agency of the Southern Baptist Convention.

                Were these guys "stepping up", or were they "Tebowing"?

                •  The players in this article were approached... (0+ / 0-)

                  ... by the magazine for comment.  They acknowledged their faith, and to the best of my recollection did not run around mega-genuflecting and making a huge deal of G-d during or after the game.  I'm not saying that players cannot be faithful, but Tebowing and Ray Lewising take things to another level.

                  That said - if Drew Brees comes out and says that he is not going to pay for his employees healthcare at the restaurant franchise he's opening, my impression of him will change.

                  I haven't been here long enough to be considered a Kossack, does that mean that I'm just a sack?

                  by Hey338Too on Sat Feb 16, 2013 at 09:23:00 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

        •  To conflate politics and religion (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Hey338Too, RockyMtnLib

          is not appropriate. Indeed, it is presumptuous to assume that embracing belief in a deity (or, if you prefer a Deity), gives anyone sufficient grounds to feel superior to some specific segment of humanity "just because."

          I'm not interested in bashing religion. I have a religion, though my practice of it is decidedly casual (for reasons which are entirely my own). It is not religion I'm objecting to. It is the abuse of religion that I find offensive. It is the assertion--whether implicit or explicit that because someone proclaims their beliefs loudly--they must be given a pass on bigotry that I find absolutely unacceptable.

          Everyone is entitled to his or her beliefs but they are not entitled to use those beliefs as a weapon to be launched against others who view things differently or who experience their lives differently.

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