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View Diary: Watching Maddow's "Hubris: Selling the Iraq War" (189 comments)

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  •  I think there was thoughtful planning (37+ / 0-)

    I think it is erroneous to say the Bush administration and its neocon and industrialist backers are mindless thoughtless gut-instinct-going fools.  I think that is giving away far too much to what we today know was a purposeful and intentional war for profit.

    Military and industrial planners had alreday made plans to secure mideastern oil resources well before the 9/11 attacks.  The 9/11 attacks provided a ripe opportunity to put those plans into action.  The idea that a dispute over weapons inspections would be the reason used to gain the acceptance of the American people was also dreamed up well in advance of complaints made to the UN.  These plans were made in great secrecy, with the intention of fooling congress, indicating a great deal of thoughtful planning.

    Of course, the Bush war machine made no planning for a prolonged occupation, or gave much thought to the reaction of the Iraqi people.  Here, there was little forethought.  These people were planning for a war, not social engineering.

    But I think it is mistaken to paint Bush and his neocon advisers and helpers as fools and idiot.  Bush himself can and did play the drooling fool when it was helpful for him.  But the war was carefully and purposefully plotted.

    "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

    by Hugh Jim Bissell on Tue Feb 19, 2013 at 06:56:56 AM PST

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    •  They did move very quickly, though, and ... (8+ / 0-)

      ... steamrolled over that phony NIE. They knew thoughtful consideration of their "evidence" would turn the tide of opinion against them, so time wasn't on their side.

      They also knew that, once the boom-boom began, all thoughtful consideration from mainstream America would cease, the visuals would distract them and the puppy dog press would continue to play along.

      The "hubris," in my view, was as much in the fast-track planning of tactics and strategy that killed a lot of people as it was in selling a phony, offensive war to America.

      •  That National Intelligence Estimate (8+ / 0-)

        (interim revised version) lay in various piles around the copy machine.  Hilarious reading, if only for the transparently tortured "logic."  And its "contributors" were in a state of panic for several days until they finally got it "right." What a trip watching all those pasty white faces made red from anxiety -- fearing loss of Inside-the-Beltway status, you know.  Except for that lone fellow over at Dept. of Energy who had the huevos to insist that the aluminum tubes were no way useful for nuclear isotope-sorting centrifuges.  But of course no one asked the GG-14s and below until they needed an imaging specialist for BDA.

        Stomach churning time.  Constant headache time.  Loss of innocence time.  Beginning of the end.  Time to find another job.

        And at no time since has the guilt abated.

        (-7.62,-7.33) Carbon footprint 12.6 metric tons. l'Enfer, c'est les autres.

        by argomd on Tue Feb 19, 2013 at 08:28:40 AM PST

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    •  Secrecy and deception and cunning are all (5+ / 0-)

      instinctive characteristics.  All kinds of animals lacking the faculties humans pride themselves on having (speech, mainly) exhibit those characteristics.
      Besides, whatever the intent, the result has been a prolonged recession in which much of the monetary wealth has disappeared. The $40 trillion "lost" was not all the assets of the 99%. The military adventure pumped dollars into the economy, but, instead of circulating and being deployed to repair infrastructure, expand the electric grid, develop modern transport and advance science and technology, the funds were secreted in the Wall Street gambling casinos -- people trading innovative "financial products" like baseball cards and having about as much real value.

      The invasion of Iraq and the establishment of permanent bases was, indeed, prepared by the Pentagon as part of its continuous planning process. That's why they knew how many troops they would need to pacify the population. But, those plans were prepared during Clinton/Gore. Bush accessed the candy store and went wild. He could not resist. Again, like a mosquito honing in on warm blood.

      We organize governments to deliver services and prevent abuse.

      by hannah on Tue Feb 19, 2013 at 07:32:56 AM PST

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    •  I wouldn't call them Fools & Idiots... (10+ / 0-)

      I agree 100%...

      "But I think it is mistaken to paint Bush and his neocon advisers and helpers as fools and idiot.  Bush himself can and did play the drooling fool when it was helpful for him.  But the war was carefully and purposefully plotted."
      Treasonous fits IMHO...

      "Do you realize the responsibility I carry?
      I'm the only person standing between Richard Nixon and the White House."
      ~John F. Kennedy~

      -7.5,-5.8

      by Oldestsonofasailor on Tue Feb 19, 2013 at 09:02:40 AM PST

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    •  Maybe not idiots but not careful either. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      maryabein, elwior, auditor, Gentle Giant

      I doubt that they were planning a train wreck but that's what happened. Invading was stupid but they botched things terribly once they were occupying Iraq.

      Read Imperial Life in the Emerald City: Inside Iraq's Green Zone and you will get an idea of just how bad it was. And no, they hadn't planned carefully for the occupation which would have been key in achieving the oil grab that they hoped for.

      Almost none of what Bush/Cheney/Rumsfield hoped for came to pass. They wanted permanent bases, Cheney/Rumsfield wanted Ahmad Chalabi to be the head of a puppet government, Iraq is now closely allied with Iran, "we" don't control Iraqi oil reserves, etc., etc.

      The belief that they could do what they hoped to do with ~100,000 occupying troops to  was a huge miscalculation.

      The belief that Chalabi was a suitable choice to lead Iraq was utterly unrealistic and so, unsurprisingly, it never came close to happening.

      Idiots? No.
      Smart enough to pull off what they wanted to do? No.
      (I'm not sure anyone could have.)

      •  I have read Emerald City (0+ / 0-)

        Wow - an example of great minds reading alike!

        I have read Imerpial Life in the Emerald City.  It's a good and eye-opening look at the failed policies and outright incompetance of our Iraqi occupation.  I was greatly sickened by what I read; I was infuriated.

        I highly recommend the book

        "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

        by Hugh Jim Bissell on Tue Feb 19, 2013 at 03:44:40 PM PST

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