Skip to main content

View Diary: Clear Channel Loses $424 Million in 2012, StopRush Rolls On (87 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  It's complicated. (49+ / 0-)

    I do know Clear Channel's problems are effecting Thom Hartmann. Which sucks! So, if you can, go subscribe to his podcast.

    Last year:

    Unfortunately, Bain/Clear Channel have decided that KPOJ should become Portland's third Sports station, instead of it's only Progressive Talk station. 

    But we're still on the air! 

    Portlanders can find us on SiriusXM satellite radio, as TV on the Free Speech Network channel on Dish network and Direct TV, available through our own Thom Hartmann app in the app store, and streamed live on our website at www.thomhartmann.com.

    You can also listen to the show anytime, without commercials, by subscribing to our ThomCast podcasts (available on our website). 
    •  Portland has 3 sports talk stations? ... (13+ / 0-)

      WTF?!?  They only have one pro team .. okay 2(the Blazers and the Ducks) .. how do 3 survive in that market .. much less 2

      •  U oregon and oregon st broadcast on 6 limbaugh sta (11+ / 0-)

        stations- maybe there's some of that on there.

        so while our unis endorse RW radio and its lying haters the thom hartmans get kicked off.

        This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

        by certainot on Wed Feb 20, 2013 at 09:18:52 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Universities do NOT "endorse"... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SilentBrook, elwior

          I've gone through this a half-dozen times.

          Your argument would suggest that the Post Office supports hate groups because someone bought The Turner Diaries by mail.

          These radio stations are usually three levels-of-contracts removed from the university when they sign on to broadcast athletic games.  Expecting that the university can a priori require that no station carrying their games ever sign a contract to broadcast a right-wing talk show is ludicrous.

          •  stations put uni team logos on their megaphones (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            elwior, Eyesbright, BusyinCA, Jim Domenico

            your analogy is ludicrous.

            the university is being paid by the station or its owner for the right to be able to put the team logo on the soapbox/megaphone.

            listening to the univ of co bball game recently i heard 3 time: "850 KOA, home of the buffs and rush limbaugh".

            i've heard promos for uni games during rush's shows.

            the universities are selling their community credibility and standing and reputation to those stations so the GOP can better sell their hate and bigotry and lies-  it's simple.

            maybe the universities don't like that and never thought of it that way and could have them reduce the blatant connections but the relationship is clear.

            together, our universities may be the single most significant supporter of RW radio.

            This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

            by certainot on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 09:16:52 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  and that's another result of the failure to recogn (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              elwior, Eyesbright

              nize the significant importance of RW radio, and that it's not just a market-based for-profit business selling penile enhancement formula

              if the left had been reacting to it instead of ignoring it teh last 25 years most of those universities would have extricated themselves from it long ago

              This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

              by certainot on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 09:29:07 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  The fact of the matter is this. (0+ / 0-)

              (cut-and-pasted from another diary in which I responded to you.)

              ---snip---
              In almost all cases of collegiate athletic networks, there is NO CONTRACT BETWEEN THE UNIVERSITY AND INDIVIDUAL STATIONS.  In the majority of cases, there isn't even a contract between the university (as a legal entity) and the network's management!

              Here's how it works:

              1) Most universities have a separate legal entity, usually named something like "University of Foobieblex Athletics Association", that actually owns/operates the athletic programs.  (This, incidentially, is how they get around their state's salary limitations for state government employees.  The basketball coach can be paid more than is the university president because the coach "isn't really" employed by the university, but rather by the athletics association.)

              2) The athletics association--NOT the university--then signs a contract with a sports marketing company, like IMG College, to operate the school's broadcast network.

              3) The sports marketing company--NOT the university, and NOT the athletics association--signs contracts with individual stations that wish to participate in the broadcast network.

              4) Those individual radio stations may sign OTHER contracts for other programming, such as (possibly) Rush Limbaugh.

              So, you're basically arguing that the university should, somehow, be able to negotiate (or exercise veto power over, or simply  terminate) contracts to which it is not a party, and which are, in fact, three steps removed from the university itself.

              As I said, it's a bogus suggestion, and the notion that universities are "sponsoring Limbaugh" if a radio station chooses to air both their athletic events and Limbaugh's show is utterly ludicrous.
              ---snip---

              Your typical example of "university sponsorship" seems to be that the RADIO STATION, in its OWN SELF-PROMOTIONS (NOT an advertisement purchased by the university), mentions that they broadcast both Old State U and Rush Limbaugh.  Again, that is a factor completely outside the control of the university.

              •  PS: In cases where the university DOES buy ads... (0+ / 0-)

                ...then, by all means, go after them.

                Conflating "everything that could possibly air on the same station as Rush" with "sponsoring Rush" is ludicrous on its face.

              •  thanks for the rundown but i can't believe the uni (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                elwior

                itself is not able to make an adjustment.

                basically you tell them they don't get your business anymore if they put it on those radio stations

                that's irrespective of the present contract- tell them you're not going to renew and will look for alternatives

                This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

                by certainot on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 12:05:41 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  So, your expectation is that... (0+ / 0-)

                  a) the university tells
                  b) the athletics association to tell
                  c) the sports marketing company to tell
                  d) individual radio stations that they can't buy both State U AND Rush.

                  That is a complete non-starter.  You can't even make a non-compete clause work in that context; there have been cases in which collegiate radio networks tried to enforce exclusivity clauses (as in "if you sign to broadcast State U games, you can't sign with any other university sports networks"), and those failed miserably.  (I know of one radio station which is a member of three university sports networks.  To the best of my knowledge, the radio station decides which to broadcast if/when conflicts occur.)

                  Seriously, you're way off base on this one.  Even if you were to convince a university to attempt such a thing, it wouldn't survive the inevitable legal challenge.  Competition law would strike it down in a heartbeat.

                  •  no. A tells B they can't do business with C (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    elwior

                    or something to that effect.

                    easy. might take a little time but start the process.

                    This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

                    by certainot on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 01:10:28 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  You don't seem to get it. (0+ / 0-)

                      As soon as you put that in a contract--and it would have to be an explicit clause in the contract--you're inviting a lawsuit which you WILL lose.

                      Compare your idea to that of a contact stating, "If you buy my pretzels, you can't buy his hairspray;" that's precisely what you suggest would be "easy."

                      Seriously - find an attorney, describe exactly what you suppose is so "easy" about it, and ask whether such a contract would be enforceable.

      •  Seattle now has what, five? (11+ / 0-)

        We lost our one and only progressive talk station on Jan. 2. It became yet another sports talk station.

        Organ donors save lives! A donor's kidney gave me my life back on 02/18/11; he lives on in me. Please talk with your family about your wish to donate.

        Why are war casualty counts "American troops" and "others" but never "human beings"?

        by Kitsap River on Wed Feb 20, 2013 at 10:11:32 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I miss the Seattle station (6+ / 0-)

          I used to catch Ring of Fire repeats at 3 PM (my time) on Sundays streaming there.  Nobody else has it until Sunday night.

          With SO FEW progressive stations, losing KPOJ and KPTK are really bad news.

          There already is class warfare in America. Unfortunately, the rich are winning.

          by Puddytat on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 01:57:40 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •   I count four (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SilentBrook, elwior, Kitsap River

          KJR-AM, KIRO-AM, KPTK-AM, and I'll be charitable and count KRKO up in Everett. There may be a fifth but frankly I've lost track and don't care to go check it out.

          And it's not like we weren't doing fine with one and a half when I first moved here 20-some years ago (KJR and the Mariners/Seahawks/Huskies on KIRO, IIRC). Frankly it seems like a waste of a good class A channel at the least.

          Steal a trillion, too big to fail. Steal a thousand, go to jail.

          by Omir the Storyteller on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 03:05:26 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  We lost our Progressive station in Detroit Jan 1 (4+ / 0-)

          Apparently there was little or no advance notice because our local show host, Tony Trupiano, was caught flatfooted.
          I really miss that station.  Kept it on in my work truck all day. Stephanie Miller, Ed Schultz, Thom Hartmann, Randi Rhodes...all gone.
          I actually finally bought an IPod in order to get the podcasts.
          Still, can't listen in my work truck.  Stuck with NPR again.

          I can see Canada from my house. No, really, I can.

          by DuzT on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 03:46:06 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  much as I love my Ducks (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        elwior

        not pro, just good.

        ...better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity, than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference. -FDR, 1936

        by James Allen on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 06:56:39 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Ahem. (4+ / 0-)

        The Portland Timbers.

      •  Blazers and Timbers. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        elwior

        Ducks are neither from Portland nor pro.

        It is more important to be a confident and articulate speaker than to know jack shit about anything.

        by VictorLaszlo on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 07:51:18 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  i'll bet that's more about reprisal (14+ / 0-)

      as opposed to progressive radio's marketability, especially in a blue town.

      CC's ability to make a profit is secondary to their value as a propaganda tool so essential for selling trillion dollar wars, deregulation,tax breaks for billionaires, ignorant sycophant politicians, and global warming denial.

      This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

      by certainot on Wed Feb 20, 2013 at 09:15:21 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah. They're not in it for the money. (9+ / 0-)

        They're in it for the lies.

        That's idealism for you.

      •  Exactly (9+ / 0-)

        Plenty of billionaires prepared to pony up big bucks so they can continue to fool the public with lies and BS.  

        Murdoch shit money like a goose for years until he started to turn a profit with Foxaganda.

        There already is class warfare in America. Unfortunately, the rich are winning.

        by Puddytat on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 01:59:25 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I'm sorry but you misunderstand the business (0+ / 0-)

        Radio/TV used to be a license to print money. Returns of up to 50% were not uncommon. Now, stations are showing much more common returns on investment. That's not what CC and other station aggregators signed up for.

        Much as I hate CC and what they've done to a business I loved, this is about money, not politics. The progressive stations were making money, yes. They just weren't making ENOUGH money.

        This is the new model:

        Dump local programming. It's expensive; you have to have real live people behind the mic in multiple cities. Then build a single central station. Stripe it across your properties. Sell national advertising. Don't worry too much about local ads;  that saves sales and traffic (where to put the advertising) personnel salaries as well. Profits rise, radio and the communities it used to serve suffer.

        But why, you ask, didn't CC just create a central progressive station and stripe it across their properties? Because efforts like Stop Rush--and in general I support it--have made any kind of political talk toxic. Advertisers are fleeing not just Rush, but Stephanie Miller, Randi, Thom and the rest of the gang. By contrast, the sports talk replacing it is still good with advertisers. The ratings don't matter much. These are package deals for ads.

        I got out/was forced out by the beginnings of this in '92. Just recently I saw the man who engineered my firing and was able to tell him, most sincerely, that it was one of the best things that ever happened to me. I thanked him.

        Many radio pros are moving online in an attempt to keep the medium we love alive--and i'm not just talking politics. Watch out for them.

        And if you appreciate Thom, Stephanie, Randi and the rest, subscribe. Support them with more than your ears. The advertiser-supported model is dying (ask Kos); the crowd funding/subscription model is the only viable alternative.

        •  you misunderstand the value of RW radio to the GOP (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Eyesbright, elwior, BusyinCA

          i may misunderstand the business but i don't misunderstand the value of RW radio to the 1% and the GOP. i've been arguing for years with people who think of RW radio as a business. it's value as a propaganda tool far outweighs anything those stations can make for a parent co. owners and management of individual stations may operate for profit and that would be gravy, but to the karl roves and the heritage foundation that's just convenient. RW radio is practically free advertising 24/7 for the GOP.

          i just had the same/similar argument with someone else recently:

          "it's a mistake to look at RW talk radio merely as a business being run for profit. they will gladly lose millions to sell trillions in war, deregulation, tax breaks, ignorant sycophant politicians and supremes, character assassination of good people, and global warming denial.

          rush is big because they bought him a monopoly on the loudest stations on the planet and made sure there was little or no competition.

          the main prog talkers can compete with and beat limbaugh and hannity on an even playing field in blue areas and they've proven it- but those opportunities have been limited, and for a purpose. at soem level, yes, they are a business but CC operates primarily as a propaganda tool. they're  going to be happy if the stations can pay wages and operating costs. anything else is gravy.

          there is no way 95% of the americans who listen to political talk radio are teabaggers, especially in all those blue areas RW radio dominates. in most parts of the country there are NO alternatives for political talk and that's for a reason- they can't handle the truth. limbaugh's success is dependent on his certitude never being challenged.

          those giant stations also often broadcast sports. 28% of limbaughs depend on university sports broadcasting- a disgusting association that needs to end. i wouldn't be surprised if many of the 600 stations they bought up for him were chosen exactly for that reason- the uni association bring community cred and local ad money.

          many of his stations loudly dominate their areas and often offer traffic, weather, and local news- limbaugh is the beneficiary of the advantages of a protected monopoly - not a reflection of american taste for ignorance, hate, and lies.

          i hope you'll use you knowledge of the business to help stoprush."

          and

          " i’ve been monitoring RW radio for over 20 years. i was living in western states where that was all there was and i checked it out while working and saw a lot of patterns over the years.

          there are a few things i’d add and i think it’s important to keep in mind the value of talk radio to the right as basically free advertising and more- a way to pound the country with repetitive messaging coordinated on the national and local level. they are going to protect their monopoly and find ways to keep it going any way they can. limbaugh is a key piece with “talent on loan from god” - the ability to beat a lie detector, create ‘facts’, and rationalize opposites within the same paragraph. the key to selling the lies is his royal certitude, which can only be maintained is he is unchallenged in real time. that’s why his handlers will not have him on stations that also do liberal talk. i remember hearing somewhere that is in his contract- that would be an interesting thing to see (the contract). there may be a few exceptions and those limbaugh stations may also do sports but they won't have liberals following him.

          my observation is that the the political content is usually well coordinated. he gets first dibs on national stuff and the others add and reinforce but there is considerable coordination. a lot of these guys don’t do their own homework and i’ll bet, at least until rove lost the white house, there was significant coordination of the main national and local subjects emphasized. timing is also important on events related to getting the screaming callers in to push or stop legislation or attack someone. that happens nationally and locally. it’s clear from listening RW talkers over the years that very few of them do their own research. i wish someone in the radio biz would check that out. i know the heritage foundation plays a big part. i heard the subs for hannity let slip they were broadcasting from there- probably not a secret.

          with call screening software they can ID incoming calls and program who is friendly and who is not. that would give them the ability to automatically send paid callers to the top of the line. i wish someone in the biz would check that out. i think people would be surprised how often and to what extent paid callers are used.

          relative to the mix on a stations and selling ads, take the denver RW limbaugh mothership 850 KOA, which at one point was reaching 38 states at night. nowadays it does bronco, rockies baseball, and colorado buffaloes footbal and basketball but it can dominate state politics with the local morning and evening blowhards and delayed limbaugh at 12. they include a sports talk segment in the afternoon with the traffic news and weather.  the sports connection is big- but that station is a big part of republican politics in CO. during a CO bball game recently i heard “850 KOA, home of the buffs and rush limbaugh!” 3 times. except in the south and a few other places i doubt they could dominate without the sports connection to our universities. in this case they have pro sports too but just one university sports connection can be a big deal for a station in the state and community.

          re the debate programming. the ones i’ve heard are often a version of the old hannity and colmes,   where there’s something distracting about the ‘liberal’ and he/she is not really a liberal. like one in denver where the ‘liberal’ has an incredibly whiny voice. and he's not a liberal, just the less conservative twit. the big debates are usually something like whether reagan was a great president or a really really great president. i think the crossfire format might be a winning alternative for some stations but it won’t help a lot if the karl roves are the ones picking the hosts.

          i think the right will do a lot before they allow their stations to go from RW/limbaugh to progressive. they know their model can’t survive with real competition (the truth- not just alternative opinions). they know they can’t sell their alternative reality in any area where there is a loud alternative so they’re going to try to keep their monopoly.

          i hope people in the radio business will look at the talk radio part of a company like CC  as a very successful and valuable propaganda machine within the company as opposed to just another format. they’re going to try everything to keep it going and minimize competition, and i wouldn’t put it past them to try every accounting trick in the books to extend it and hide losses and problems.

          the key for americans to fixing it is to break down that monopoly until there’s finally some competition. they can’t handle the truth.

           but until then we're not going to have rational national discussions on any major issue without their think tanks being able to distort it with professionally orchestrated and well-timed PR campaigns laundered through 1000 radio stations pretending to reflect 'popular opinion' and 'market forces'."

          This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

          by certainot on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 12:22:13 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Thanks! nt (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      elwior

      When someone is impatient and says, "I haven't got all day," I always wonder, How can that be? How can you not have all day? George Carlin

      by msmacgyver on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 07:44:14 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  More liberal talk radio stations listed (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      elwior, Eileen B

      here, although the list is outdated (it still lists KPOJ and KPTK in the "Commercial Radio Stations Featuring Left-Leaning Programming" section).

      Sirius/XM has their SiriusXM Left Liberal Talk lineup here (click the Shows tab). I think you can get an internet-only subscription, but am not sure (I have an old Sirius radio in my car). They also carry a simulcast of MSNBC.

      I don't know how current this list is.

      As poorly-run as Air America was reported to be, I miss them. But with the variety of mobile devices, I'm not sure how broadcast radio can survive.

      I'm a Democrat - I believe that government has a positive role to play in the lives of ordinary people.

      by 1BQ on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 11:06:17 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I get him on ITunes (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      elwior, Eileen B

      Watch him regularly.

      Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

      by splashy on Thu Feb 21, 2013 at 11:43:38 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site