Skip to main content

View Diary: Unsecured Gun Cache in My Peaceful Suburb (348 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  The article says the stolen guns have been (55+ / 0-)

    entered into a database.  Now, when one of those guns is recovered at a crime scene, what happens to this guy?  If it is currently "nothing", that's one of the things we have to change.  Laws do act as deterrents for most people.

    David Koch is Longshanks, and Occupy is the real Braveheart.

    by PsychoSavannah on Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 07:31:29 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  They have the right to keep and bear arms. (52+ / 0-)

      Currently the only thing they talk about is bear arms.  Discussing the keep part is something they won't do.  Last month I posted a petition at the White House web site urging them to enforce the keep in keep and bear arms.

      Felony - failure to secure a deadly weapon.  Automatic accessory to any crime the unsecured gun was used in. (My law would be that you would have to prove continuity of possession every few years.  Like an emissions test for your car.)

      Felony - accidental discharge of a deadly weapon.

      Now in the answers to my comments, one RkBAer always brings up my petition. Real sarcastically they say, why don't you write a petition, I say 'your turn'.  I think the RkBAers were the only ones who knew about it.  I got 32 signatures though.

      guns are fun v. hey buddy, watch what you are doing -- which side are you on?

      by 88kathy on Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 07:45:05 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm so sorry to hear that. (21+ / 0-)

        I not only signed, I encouraged others.

        Cats are better than therapy, and I'm a therapist.

        by Smoh on Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 07:47:23 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I've seen that mean-spirited reference (15+ / 0-)

        to your petition a number of times.  I think people figured since Biden was on it, no petitions were really needed yet.  We'll see what comes out of the background check vote.  

        David Koch is Longshanks, and Occupy is the real Braveheart.

        by PsychoSavannah on Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 07:48:39 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  It's just that your ideas are so silly... (11+ / 7-)

        ...unworkable, impossible, and downright stupid that I thought the petition, and all your comments in a similar vein, were a poor attempt at humor.

        I'm saddened to find out that you were serious.

        Things are more like they are now than they've ever been before...

        by Tom Seaview on Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 08:26:26 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  That't the way things can start, this is not going (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Glen The Plumber, Smoh, DvCM, Skookum

        away given the horrendous nature of incidents like this so your petition may rise again I bet.

      •  You would think, after all this, that RESPONSIBLE (20+ / 0-)

        gun owners would have some (ANY?) suggestions for pro-active action to protect the right they hold sooooo dear.  

        I've yet to see anything from them other than nay-saying, disagreeing and/or derision and attacks on those proposing measures to keep all safe.  

        Simple step one: Background checks?  Irrelevant or tyranny!!1

        Oh, wait.  I've seen misrepresented "data" about watermelon deaths vs AR-15 deaths.  And "data" about violence in Greenland.  And anecdotes about feral pigs in TX.

        NO POSITIVE CONTRIBUTIONS TOWARDS A SOLUTION.

        The GOP says you have to have an ID to vote, but $ Millionaire donors should remain anonymous?

        by JVolvo on Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 11:54:21 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I personally have yet to see a problem that (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          43north, DavidMS, whoknu

          can be fixed and stay within the limits of the constitution.

          The "solutions" offered here in NYS have denied me a right I have never exercised as an adult.  And as a transgendered woman and recovered alcoholic with 23+ yrs sobriety in, I'm denied that right because both conditions are defined in NYS law as "mental illnesses".

          I have extensively given my list of solutions and I've been told by many here that since they are unwilling to wait for "utopia" to arrive, my "suggestions" are therefore, less than meaningless.

          Here's the list again:
          1.  Stop focusing on the how and direct our national attention on the why our citizens are acting out violently.
          2. Fully funded healthcare, not for-profit health insurance.
          3. End the racist drug war that has destroyed the African-American family and made our cities into war zones.
          4. Mandatory firearms training for everyone, even the ones that don't or won't ever exercise the right.  If you can be drafted against your will, by damn you can be taught how to handle a firearm safely and store it properly.
          5. Release all non-violent drug offenders, retraining them to rebuild our cities at living wage jobs.  Give them a reason to be productive members in our society as free men and women.
          6. Teach our children critical logic thinking. Teach them peace.  Act, as a nation, peacefully.

          That's my short list of reasonable gun control proposals!

          What did anyone think would happen when you defunded our social safety nets over 30 yrs? Waged unending unfunded wars of aggression? Gave tax breaks to the most wealthy whom never created anything but misery while they shipped our manufacturing base to slave-labored countries?

          Until we restore the American dream and end the despair our criminal government created, the violence will surely get worse.

          Until then, the "solutions" offered today are only enabling the status quo.  We must stop being lazy and irresponsible and do what's right for all of us. Put the blame where it belongs not on the object used, that's a goddamn distraction.

          /rant

          Hey, but now you know my suggestions.  Can't say you weren't told.

          -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

          by gerrilea on Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 01:52:01 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  can you link the section of law that says (10+ / 0-)

            you cannot have a gun because you are transgender...because if true...that would be wrong...very wrong IMO...I found this...

            Mental Health Alert: Under the legislation, mental health professionals will be required to report to local mental health officials when there is reason to believe a patient is likely to engage in conduct that will cause serious harm to themselves or others. This information will then be crosschecked against the new comprehensive, and regularly updated, gun registration database. If the patient possesses a gun, the license will be suspended and law enforcement will be authorized to remove the person's firearm.
            thankfully gender identity disorder is no longer considered an 'illness' in the new dsm-v...and even if it were it would not keep you from having a gun unless a therapist considers you a threat to yourself or others...that's a pretty high threshold.


            We are not broke, we are being robbed.

            by Glen The Plumber on Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 03:05:57 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Here: (0+ / 0-)

              http://assembly.state.ny.us/...

              S 9.46 REPORTS OF SUBSTANTIAL RISK OR THREAT OF HARM  BY  MENTAL  HEALTH

                12            PROFESSIONALS.
                 13    (A)  FOR  PURPOSES  OF  THIS  SECTION, THE TERM "MENTAL HEALTH PROFES-
                 14  SIONAL" SHALL INCLUDE A PHYSICIAN,  PSYCHOLOGIST,  REGISTERED  NURSE  OR
                 15  LICENSED CLINICAL SOCIAL WORKER.
                 16    (B)  NOTWITHSTANDING  ANY  OTHER  LAW  TO  THE CONTRARY, WHEN A MENTAL
                 17  HEALTH PROFESSIONAL CURRENTLY PROVIDING TREATMENT SERVICES TO  A  PERSON
                 18  DETERMINES,  IN  THE  EXERCISE OF REASONABLE PROFESSIONAL JUDGMENT, THAT
                 19  SUCH PERSON IS LIKELY TO ENGAGE IN CONDUCT THAT WOULD RESULT IN  SERIOUS
                 20  HARM  TO  SELF OR OTHERS,
              -cut-
              (C) NOTHING IN THIS SECTION SHALL BE CONSTRUED  TO  REQUIRE  A  MENTAL
                 32  HEALTH PROFESSIONAL TO TAKE ANY ACTION WHICH, IN THE EXERCISE OF REASON-
                 33  ABLE  PROFESSIONAL  JUDGMENT,  WOULD ENDANGER SUCH MENTAL HEALTH PROFES-
                 34  SIONAL OR INCREASE THE DANGER TO A POTENTIAL VICTIM OR VICTIMS.
                 35    (D) THE DECISION OF A MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONAL TO DISCLOSE OR NOT TO
                 36  DISCLOSE IN ACCORDANCE WITH THIS SECTION, WHEN MADE  REASONABLY  AND  IN
                 37  GOOD  FAITH,  SHALL NOT BE THE BASIS FOR ANY CIVIL OR CRIMINAL LIABILITY
                 38  OF SUCH MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONAL.
              -cut-
              Any court order requiring periodic
                 24  blood tests or urinalysis for the presence of alcohol or  illegal  drugs
                 25  shall  be subject to review after six months by the physician who devel-
                 26  oped the written treatment plan or another physician designated  by  the
                 27  director, and such physician shall be authorized to terminate such blood
                 28  tests or urinalysis without further action by the court.
                 29    (n) Failure to comply with assisted outpatient treatment. Where in the
                 30  clinical  judgment  of  a  physician,  (i)  the assisted outpatient, has
                 31  failed or refused to comply with the assisted outpatient treatment, (ii)
                 32  efforts were made to solicit compliance,
              -cut-
              Furthermore, if such assisted outpatient refuses to take  medi-
                 43  cations as required by the court order, or he or she refuses to take, or
                 44  fails  a  blood test, urinalysis, or alcohol or drug test as required by
                 45  the court order, such physician may consider  such  refusal  or  failure
                 46  when  determining whether the assisted outpatient is in need of an exam-
                 47  ination to determine whether he or she has a mental  illness  for  which
                 48  hospitalization  is  necessary.
              Upon the request of such physician, the
                 49  APPROPRIATE director, the director's designee, or any  physician  desig-
                 50  nated  pursuant  to section 9.37 of this article, may direct peace offi-
                 51  cers, acting pursuant to their special duties, or  police  officers  who
                 52  are  members  of  an authorized police department or force or of a sher-
                 53  iff's department to take the assisted outpatient into custody and trans-
                 54  port him or her to the hospital operating the assisted outpatient treat-
                 55  ment program or to any hospital authorized by the director of  community
                 56  services  to  receive such persons.
              -cut-
              (g)  (1)  The commissioner, in cooperation with other applicable state
                 34  agencies, shall [be authorized to] collect, retain  or  modify  data  or
                 35  records,  [or  to]  AND  SHALL transmit such data or records to: (I) the
                 36  division of criminal justice services, or to the criminal justice infor-
                 37  mation services division of the federal bureau of investigation, for the
                 38  purposes of responding to queries to the national instant criminal back-
                 39  ground check system regarding attempts to  purchase  or  otherwise  take
                 40  possession  of  firearms,  as defined in 18 USC 921(a)(3), in accordance
                 41  with applicable federal laws or regulations, OR (II) TO THE DIVISION  OF
                 42  CRIMINAL  JUSTICE  SERVICES,  FOR  THE PURPOSES OF DETERMINING WHETHER A
                 43  LICENSE ISSUED PURSUANT TO SECTION 400.00 OF THE  PENAL  LAW  SHOULD  BE
                 44  DENIED,  SUSPENDED OR REVOKED, UNDER SUBDIVISION ELEVEN OF SUCH SECTION,
                 45  OR FOR DETERMINING WHETHER A PERSON IS NO LONGER PERMITTED UNDER FEDERAL
                 46  OR STATE LAW TO POSSESS A FIREARM.   Such  records  shall  include  only
                 47  names and other non-clinical identifying information of persons who have
                 48  had  a  guardian  appointed  for them pursuant to any provision of state
                 49  law, based on a determination that  as  a  result  of  marked  subnormal
                 50  intelligence,  mental  illness,  incapacity,  condition or disease, they
                 51  lack the mental capacity to contract or manage their  own  affairs,  and
                 52  persons  who have been involuntarily committed to a facility pursuant to
                 53  article fifteen of this chapter, or  article  seven  hundred  thirty  or
                 54  section  330.20 of the criminal procedure law or sections 322.2 or 353.4
                 55  of the family court act.
                     S. 2230    
                     
              S 27. Paragraphs (b) and (c) of subdivision 1 of section 70.02 of  the
                  7  penal  law,  paragraph (b) as amended by chapter 148 of the laws of 2011
                  8  and paragraph (c) as amended by chapter 405 of the  laws  of  2010,  are
                  9  amended to read as follows:
                 10    (b)  Class  C violent felony offenses: an attempt to commit any of the
                 11  class B felonies set forth in paragraph (a) of this subdivision;  aggra-
                 12  vated criminally negligent homicide as defined in section 125.11, aggra-
                 13  vated  manslaughter  in  the second degree as defined in section 125.21,
                 14  aggravated sexual abuse in the  second  degree  as  defined  in  section
                 15  130.67, assault on a peace officer, police officer, fireman or emergency
                 16  medical services professional as defined in section 120.08, assault on a
                 17  judge as defined in section 120.09, gang assault in the second degree as
                 18  defined  in section 120.06, strangulation in the first degree as defined
                 19  in section 121.13, burglary in the second degree as defined  in  section
                 20  140.25, robbery in the second degree as defined in section 160.10, crim-
                 21  inal  possession  of a weapon in the second degree as defined in section
                 22  265.03, criminal use of a firearm in the second  degree  as  defined  in
                 23  section  265.08,  criminal  sale  of  a  firearm in the second degree as
                 24  defined in section 265.12, criminal sale of a firearm with the aid of  a
                 25  minor  as defined in section 265.14,
              -cut-
              S 115.20 CRIMINAL FACILITATION; DEFINITIONS AND CONSTRUCTION.
                 46    FOR PURPOSES OF THIS ARTICLE, SUCH CONDUCT SHALL INCLUDE, BUT  NOT  BE
                 47  LIMITED  TO,  MAKING AVAILABLE, SELLING, EXCHANGING, GIVING OR DISPOSING
                 48  OF A COMMUNITY GUN, WHICH IN FACT, AIDS A  PERSON  TO  COMMIT  A  CRIME.
                 49  "COMMUNITY  GUN"  SHALL  MEAN  A  FIREARM  THAT IS ACTUALLY SHARED, MADE
                 50  AVAILABLE, SOLD, EXCHANGED, GIVEN OR DISPOSED OF AMONG OR BETWEEN TWO OR
                 51  MORE PERSONS, AT LEAST ONE OF WHOM IS NOT AUTHORIZED PURSUANT TO LAW  TO
                 52  POSSESS  SUCH  FIREARM. "DISPOSE OF" SHALL HAVE THE SAME MEANING AS THAT
                 53  TERM IS DEFINED IN SECTION 265.00 OF THIS  CHAPTER.  "SHARE"  AND  "MAKE
                 54  AVAILABLE"  SHALL,  IN  THE  CASE  OF A FIREARM, BE CONSTRUED TO INCLUDE
                 55  KNOWINGLY PLACING SUCH FIREARM AT A LOCATION ACCESSIBLE AND KNOWN TO ONE
                 56  OR MORE OTHER PERSONS.
              -cut-
              S 265.01 Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree.
                  4    A  person  is  guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth
                  5  degree when:
              -cut-
              (2)  He  possesses any dagger, dangerous knife, dirk, razor, stiletto,
                 12  imitation pistol, or any other dangerous or deadly instrument or  weapon
                 13  with intent to use the same unlawfully against another; or
              -cut-
              (5)  He  possesses any dangerous or deadly weapon and is not a citizen
                 26  of the United States; or
              -cut-
              (6) He is a person who has been certified not suitable  to  possess  a
                 28  rifle  or  shotgun, as defined in subdivision sixteen of section 265.00,
                 29  and refuses to yield possession of such rifle or shotgun upon the demand
                 30  of a police officer. Whenever a person  is  certified  not  suitable  to
                 31  possess  a  rifle or shotgun, a member of the police department to which
                 32  such certification is made, or of  the  state  police,  shall  forthwith
                 33  seize  any rifle or shotgun possessed by such person. A rifle or shotgun
                 34  seized as herein provided shall not be destroyed, but shall be delivered
                 35  to the headquarters of such police  department,  or  state  police,  and
                 36  there retained until the aforesaid certificate has been rescinded by the
                 37  director  or  physician in charge, or other disposition of such rifle or
                 38  shotgun has been ordered or authorized by a court of competent jurisdic-
                 39  tion.
                 40    (7) He knowingly possesses a bullet containing an explosive  substance
                 41  designed to detonate upon impact.
                 42    (8)  He possesses any armor piercing ammunition with intent to use the
                 43  same unlawfully against another.
              -cut-
              S  43. Section 265.17 of the penal law, as added by chapter 189 of the
                  7  laws of 2000, is amended to read as follows:
                  8  S 265.17 Criminal purchase OR DISPOSAL of a weapon.
                  9    A person is guilty of criminal purchase OR DISPOSAL of a weapon when:
                 10    1. Knowing that he or she is  prohibited  by  law  from  possessing  a
                 11  firearm,  rifle  or  shotgun because of a prior conviction or because of
                 12  some other disability which  would  render  him  or  her  ineligible  to
                 13  lawfully  possess a firearm, rifle or shotgun in this state, such person
                 14  [attempts to purchase] PURCHASES a firearm, rifle or shotgun from anoth-
                 15  er person; or
              -cut-
              Criminal purchase OR DISPOSAL of a weapon is a class [A misdemeanor] D
                 25  FELONY.
                26    S 44. Intentionally omitted.
                 27    S  45. The penal law is amended by adding a new section 265.19 to read
                 28  as follows:
              -cut-
               S  48.  Subdivision 1, paragraph (a) of subdivision 3, subdivisions 4,
                 28  5, 9, 10, 11, 12 and 15 of section 400.00 of the penal law,  subdivision
                 29  1 as amended by chapter 189 of the laws of 2000, paragraph (a) of subdi-
                 30  vision 3 as designated by chapter 778 of the laws of 1985, subdivision 4
                 31  as  amended by chapter 331 of the laws of 2005, subdivision 5 as amended
                 32  by chapter 332 of the laws of 1994, subdivision 9 as amended by  chapter
                 33  172 of the laws of 1973, subdivision 10 as amended by chapter 447 of the
                 34  laws  of  1997,  subdivision 11 as amended by chapter 210 of the laws of
                 35  1999, and subdivision 12 as amended by chapter 449 of the laws of  1993,
                 36  are  amended and two new subdivisions 16-a and 16-b are added to read as
                 37  follows:
              -cut-


              THIS IS WHERE IT ALL COMES TOGETHER:

              1. Eligibility. No license shall be issued or renewed pursuant to this
                 39  section except by the licensing officer, and then  only  after  investi-
                 40  gation  and  finding  that  all statements in a proper application for a
                 41  license are true.

              -cut-

              (b)  of  good  moral  character;  (c) who has not been convicted
                 47  anywhere of a felony or a serious offense; (d) WHO  IS  NOT  A  FUGITIVE
                 48  FROM  JUSTICE;  (E)  WHO  IS  NOT AN UNLAWFUL USER OF OR ADDICTED TO ANY
                 49  CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE AS DEFINED IN SECTION 21 U.S.C. 802; (F) WHO  BEING
                 50  AN ALIEN (I) IS NOT ILLEGALLY OR UNLAWFULLY IN THE UNITED STATES OR (II)
                 51  HAS  NOT  BEEN  ADMITTED  TO THE UNITED STATES UNDER A NONIMMIGRANT VISA

                 52  SUBJECT TO THE EXCEPTION IN 18 U.S.C. 922(Y)(2); (G) WHO  HAS  NOT  BEEN
                 53  DISCHARGED FROM THE ARMED FORCES UNDER DISHONORABLE CONDITIONS; (H) WHO,
                 54  HAVING BEEN A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES, HAS NOT RENOUNCED HIS OR HER
                 55  CITIZENSHIP;  (I) who has stated whether he or she has ever suffered any
                 56  mental illness [or been confined to any hospital or institution,  public
                     S. 2230                            26                            A. 2388

                  1  or  private,  for  mental  illness];  

              SEE THE PROBLEM????

              I DO!

              Imagine with me for a moment:

              I'm a Transgendered Amish person, whom became an alcoholic and pot user whose parents brought me here when I was 6 yrs old when they entered illegally AND I just happened to get arrested when I tried to leave the Citibank branch I was at as part of the OWS protesters that were closing our bank accounts. I was charged with assaulting a peace officer who physically pushed me back into the bank and locked the door.

              I'm denied the right to keep and bear arms.

              Special note: the pot use was thrown in there to point out that in NYS if you have 25gms or more, you can be arrested and charged with possession with intent to distribute.

              http://norml.org/...

              Did my State not just make everyone ineligible to keep and bear arms? Yepperie!

              Finally, being an alcoholic and a transgendered woman is a mental illness in this State, mental illness that I must now disclose if and when I were to apply for a firearms permit.

              http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/...

               3.  "Mental  disability"  means  mental  illness,  mental retardation,
                developmental disability, alcoholism, substance dependence, or  chemical
                dependence.  A  mentally  disabled  person  is  one  who  has  a  mental
                disability.

              -cut-


               20.  "Mental  illness"
              means  an  affliction with a mental disease or
                mental condition which is manifested by a  disorder  or  disturbance  in
                behavior,  feeling,  thinking,  or  judgment  to such an extent that the
                person afflicted requires care, treatment and rehabilitation.

              -cut-

                25. "Chemical abuse" means the use  of  alcohol  and/or  one  or  more
                substances  to the extent that there is impairment of normal development
                or functioning due to such use in one or more of the  major  life  areas
                including   but   not   limited  to  the  social,  emotional,  familial,
                educational, vocational, or physical. The term  "chemical  abuse"  shall
                mean and include alcohol and/or substance abuse.

              -cut-

                  27.   "Aftercare  services"
               means  services  for  persons  no  longer
                receiving in-patient services for the mentally disabled and may include,
                but shall not be limited to, medical care, including  psychiatric  care,
                and vocational and social rehabilitation.

              -cut-

              54.  "Compulsive  gambling" means  an  impulse  control  disorder, as
                defined by the most recent edition of  the  diagnostic  and  statistical
                manual  of mental disorders (DSM), published by the American Psychiatric Association.

              In December, the APA recommended that Transgendered not be considered a mental disorder.  Alas, the devil is in the details.

              http://thebottomline.as.ucsb.edu/...

              the APA says that it is “the emotional distress that can result from ‘a marked incongruence between one’s experienced/expressed gender and assigned gender.”

              What does this change bring for individuals who identify themselves as transgender?  On the surface and in the eyes of the public, it seems to remove a degree of stigma associated with transgenderism, giving transgender people an equal standing in the eyes of medical professionals and in much of society.  However, without the label of “mental disorder,” it will be much more difficult for transgender people to reap benefits from medical insurance; insurers are more likely to provide coverage for a legitimate disorder, one listed in the DSM. However, without the status, they are less inclined to provide aid solely to an individual being transgender.  The money that insurance would have issued previously would have been utilized in sessions with a psychiatrist and such. Thus, if those who are believe themselves to be transgender would now like to have insurance cover their sessions, they no longer can as it doesn’t apply anymore as a result of the new revision.

              I have "emotional" issues now????...and STILL under the SAFE Act, I'm denied the right to keep and bear arms.  Prior Restraint is still unconstitutional.  I'd have to prove I was mentally stable by hiring a Psychiatrist (spending thousands of dollars for their testimony), petition the court, which one I don't know yet, then I'd be denied because I didn't have a "special need".
              Nikolov said she deserved a license because she passed three firearms safety courses with the National Rifle Association, showed a "calm demeanor" as a pilot and flight instructor, and had a higher likelihood of being the victim of violence as a transgender woman.
              UGHhhhhhhhhhhhh!

              Any questions????  

              Your child was diagnosed with ADHD, no firearm for them when they grow up. Your Aunt might have too many cats and is deemed a "horder", no firearm for her!

              Exercising our rights has now become the privy of any doctor.  Remember the movie "Nuts', with Barbra Striesand?

              Don't you dare judge a fuckin blow job...They're Sane! (full quote)
              11049    You think giving blowjobs for 500 dollars is nuts, right? Well, I know women who marry men they despise so they can spend summers in the Hamptons...I know women who crawl through shit for a fur coat...I know women who peddle their daughters to hang on to their husbands. So don't judge my blow jobs they're sane - I lift my skirt, I'm responsible, I go down on my knees I AM responsible.....Now he can sign a piece of paper saying I'm nuts, but its just a piece of paper, and you can't make me nuts that way no matter how many times you sign it; no matter how many times you say it you cant make nuts; or you mamma...so get it straight all of ya...I wont be nuts for you! (full quote)
              -cut-
              I'm sure he believes what he believes. He thinks whores are girls who hang out on 8th Avenue and stick needles in their arms. He knows whores aren't nice white girls from nice white families. He knows that just as sure as he knows his wife is at home cleaning the oven. Isn't that right Herbie? But what if he's wrong? What if his wife is out balling the insurance salesman? What if he doesn't know his ass from his elbow? What if he's just an asshole with power to lock me up? What if that's all he is? An asshole with power. (full quote)
              Last line worth repeating a thousand times:
              What if he's just an asshole with power to lock me up? What if that's all he is? An asshole with power.
              Maybe someday I'll write that diary on what I experienced with those "assholes with power".

              Maybe.

              -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

              by gerrilea on Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 07:52:49 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  so by inferring from the parts bolded and your (4+ / 0-)

                comment...you are an undocumented immigrant...that has been court ordered urine test...and assaulted a police officer.

                which has nothing to do with you being transgendered...you have lived a difficult life...I hope you find peace in your life and get some of this cleared up.

                but if the above is true...I'm sorry but I would not be in favor of you having a gun.

                I worry less about the gun stuff and as a big supporter of the Dream Act...hope you can take advantage of it.

                I do not disagree that some cops are bullies...and if not already convicted of that crime...hope you beat the charge.

                peace and good luck.


                We are not broke, we are being robbed.

                by Glen The Plumber on Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 08:18:46 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Glen, the faux concern for my personal life (0+ / 0-)

                  is belied by your failure to read the law.

                  Why are you being so one dimensional?

                  Don't want to actually discuss these facts?  Please read the damn law I spent 20 minutes highlighting for you?

                  As I re-read the law for the 4th time, I decided to point out all the bullshit, summing it up in one nice little picture of how they've come for the guns already here.

                  Actually a better framing would be how they keep creating "exceptions" that deny more and more NYers from exercising that right. And how those "exceptions" can be "justified" under the flimsiest of created reasons, as was done to the OWS protesters.  

                  Transgendered-denied RKBA
                  Alcoholic-denied RKBA
                  Undocumented Worker-denied RKBA
                  OWS Protester- scratch that-- Domestic Terrorist--denied RKBA
                  Lady of the Night-denied RKBA
                  ADHD- denied RKBA

                  What this law will do is stop people from getting help them may desperately need.  The "unintended consequences" cannot be ignored.

                  Pandora's box is wide open. They've effectively made the doctors in my life into the enemy.  All over a right I have no desire to exercise.

                  How does this law co-exist with the EEOC Enforcement Guidance on the Americans with Disabilities Act and Psychiatric Disabilities.

                  Can an employer ask me if I've been denied the right to keep and bear arms?

                  Surely they can.  Since I have, what is defined as an emotional "disability" and/or mental illness how will this law apply?  Do I tell them I can't exercise that right? Can they then ask me why? Since they'll most likely do a background check, they already know my arrest history. Do I have to admit to my transgendered nature?  What if they need to know if I'm pre-op or post-op to make legitimate accommodations for my condition?

                  Best way to avoid this nightmare, don't get help.  That way you'll still be able to work and live a life of quiet desperation.

                  Then where are we?  No further ahead, the status quo wins again.

                  -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                  by gerrilea on Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 10:16:42 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I did read you comment...carefully. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    DefendOurConstitution

                    n/t.


                    We are not broke, we are being robbed.

                    by Glen The Plumber on Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 10:22:43 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Insulting, sorry to say. (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      andalusi

                      The law is now the law.

                      I have been denied the exercise of a right without due process.  

                      FYI, I was not part of OWS, I'm not Amish, I'm not an illegal immigrant and I'm not a hooker, I'm not been diagnosed with ADHD.  I was diagnosed 20+ yrs ago with "gender dysphoria", a mental illness which has now been "reclassified" to save insurance companies money, into an "emotional disability".

                      I was ordered 26 yrs ago to attend Outpatient Clinic for Alcoholism. I got sober a few years later.  March 22 will be 24 yrs sober.

                      And since I actually did what was right, you find it acceptable that I be denied due process and not be allowed to keep and bear arms?

                      It's insulting to say the least.

                      Have a good night.

                      -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                      by gerrilea on Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 10:47:14 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  gender dysphoria is not a mental illness that (3+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        DefendOurConstitution, poco, JR

                        will keep you from owning a gun...unless your therapist has made the conclusion you are a danger to yourself or others...it is not even considered a mental illness anymore...rightfully.


                        We are not broke, we are being robbed.

                        by Glen The Plumber on Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 11:36:32 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  I guess you've missed the point. (0+ / 0-)

                          I would still have to get a therapist to testify for me before I could exercise that right, as the law stands today, period.

                          Prior Restraint has already been deemed unconstitutional.

                          If I were committed involuntarily to a hospital or mental institution, there would be due process first.

                          If I were convicted of domestic abuse, there would be due process first.

                          If I were convicted...is the point you're missing here.

                          And the other point that I have very serious reservations about, the final line and quote, even if I were to go to a "private doctor", they law applies.

                          The 4th and 5th Amendments no longer apply in NYS.

                          Don't you get that????

                          -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                          by gerrilea on Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 11:52:46 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  no...you do not need a therapist to testify (4+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            poco, JR, alain2112, PsychoSavannah

                            for you unless you need some prior finding nullified.

                            and yes...I get it...you have been making this BS claim...all while claiming you never have owned or even wanted a gun...yet write and comment almost exclusively about gun rights.

                            very interesting...very.


                            We are not broke, we are being robbed.

                            by Glen The Plumber on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 07:05:10 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Does it matter what I post on here? (0+ / 0-)

                            The ACLU has got most of the BoR's covered, except this one.  I always liked having the option to exercise that right, when/ if I ever thought I needed to.  In my personal opinion, this right makes all the rest possible.  Human history proves this.  While I'll work toward a peaceful society in my everyday life there are some lines that cannot be crossed, this is one of them.

                            And again, you're "interpretation" is not accurate.

                            There is no "prior" findings here.   NOW you are denied before said.  If you have a mental illness you cannot own a firearm, I am ineligible, exactly as the law says.

                            I must disclose information that is private, if I don't then I run afoul of this law AND can be prosecuted as well.  4th Amendment gone.  

                            It's prior restraint.  And as I've thought about this a little, it's contrary to the ADA.  I can't be denied work but I can be denied an enumerated right in the Constitution?  

                            And you've done a good job here ignoring the rest of my position, that's very telling, as you'd say.

                            -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                            by gerrilea on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 08:08:59 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  now we are back where we started... (4+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            JR, poco, alain2112, PsychoSavannah
                            Mental Health Alert: Under the legislation, mental health professionals will be required to report to local mental health officials when there is reason to believe a patient is likely to engage in conduct that will cause serious harm to themselves or others. This information will then be crosschecked against the new comprehensive, and regularly updated, gun registration database. If the patient possesses a gun, the license will be suspended and law enforcement will be authorized to remove the person's firearm.
                            it does not say anybody with mental illness must be reported...and again...gender dysphoria is not a mental illness in the dsm-v.

                            don't understand why you bring in citizenship...assaulting an officer and urine tests when it has nothing to do with this subject.


                            We are not broke, we are being robbed.

                            by Glen The Plumber on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 08:56:28 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  The subject??? (0+ / 0-)

                            Being reported is not the point I made.

                            My original posting is that as a transgendered woman and a recovered alcoholic, I am denied the RKBA in NYS.

                            Those facts have not changed because you say so.

                            The "Eligibility" section, states "mental illness", being literal here they didn't say as defined in above sections.

                            They may have meant to say that, they did not.

                            (I) who has stated whether he or she has ever suffered any mental illness [or been confined to any hospital or institution,  public or  private,  for  mental  illness];

                            I must disclose this information when applying for a permit to exercise a right. Since it makes me immediately ineligible, that's the bottom line.

                            IN New York State it is a felony to falsify a firearms permit, I can't lie about it.

                            Besides the law is very clear on what constitutes a mental illness, I quoted it for you.

                            20.  "Mental  illness" means  an  affliction with a mental disease or mental condition which is manifested by a  disorder  or  disturbance  in behavior,  feeling,  thinking,  or  judgment  to such an extent that the person afflicted requires care, treatment and rehabilitation.
                            Did/do I have an affliction or disturbance in my feelings and thinking? YES.

                            Did I require care and treatment? YES.

                            Both as a transgendered woman AND as a recovered alcoholic.

                            The DSMV may be "the bible" of mental illness, the law will have to be clarified and carve out an exception for me.  AS IT STANDS, legally I still have a mental illness, as it is defined, period.

                            Just saying it's not a "mental illness" is great, the law says otherwise.  

                            Any questions?

                            -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                            by gerrilea on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 11:31:57 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

          •  Well at least your ideas are "realistic", as (6+ / 0-)

            realistic as pigs flying-- and a nice cover, cover of faux idealism, to stifle real practical solutions while pretending to care and pretending to do something.

            NOT FOOLED.

            •  Pigs flying??? Where, when...did I miss it... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              andalusi

              Dammit, I take an nap after work and I miss all the fun!

              ROFL.

              As for your crappy attitude:

              THAT IS the problem.  We shouldn't try IS your answer.

              Shameful.

              We shouldn't negate the despair brought about by republicanism that has destroyed our inner cities, pushed millions of Americans into poverty that kills 133,000 of us each and every year?  We shouldn't defund the Military & Prison Industrial Complexes? We should end the Racist Drug War that IS the cause of the majority of "gun crime" in this Nation?

              We shouldn't restore our social safety nets that would include mental healthcare?

              Aren't we supposed to be the "good guys"???

              Aren't we???

              Many of my fellow Americans have been conned into "instantaneous gratification", the syndrome.  One that denies critical thinking, denies reasoned thought, denies one the ability to see the big picture and what caused it.  The gun didn't do that. And "restricting" it won't fix it.

              -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

              by gerrilea on Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 08:12:44 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'm not conned by your phony rhetoric. No sale, no (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                DefendOurConstitution

                thanks. We all want to try to create that which is good, better. You use it as a cover to stop reasonable measures. You don't fool me, you disgust me-- and I mean that not personally, I don't know you, but your tactics disgust me.

                •  Hon, this isn't a "tactic", I have no skin in this (0+ / 0-)

                  game, other than being an American whom can think critically.

                  I have never owned a firearm, period.

                  -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                  by gerrilea on Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 10:20:15 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

          •  What a pile of nonsense (8+ / 0-)
            That's my short list of reasonable gun control proposals!
            There is not one item on your list that could even remotely be considered gun control. Nice list though, if you're striving to reach "utopia". You even included peace this time! Why did you leave out unicorns?

            And I'm pretty damn sure, with all your concern about what is constitutional, that your suggestion number 4 would be found unconstitutional, despite what you might think.

            Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

            by reflectionsv37 on Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 05:33:27 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  #7... (4+ / 0-)

            Free apple pie for everyone!!!

            Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

            by reflectionsv37 on Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 05:34:36 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  Uh, "hi there." (24+ / 0-)

          I support background checks for every transfer of every gun, every time.

          I support magazine size limits.

          I support universal gun registration, starting at the point of manufacture or import.

          I support waiting periods for handguns.

          I support limits on the number of firearms that can be purchased by an individual.

          I support gun-free zone laws.

          I support mandatory safety and training before purchases are allowed.

          I support the Assault Weapons Ban.

          I support product liability for gun manufacturers.

          I regularly write and call my representatives, Senators and state government officials to urge them to pass stricter gun control laws. I stood vigil in front of the White House the night of the Newtown massacre.

          And I've been a gun owner since I was a teenager, still own three, will probably be getting a fourth soon, and regularly visit shooting ranges to practice.

          Please don't let a few zealots color your view of all of us. Many responsible gun owners want stricter laws, tighter controls, and fewer firearms on the street.

          "Speaking for myself only" - Armando

          by JR on Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 03:40:07 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Good case for required liability insurance. (18+ / 0-)

      Let's say as part of gun reform laws we require every gun owner to carry liability insurance, as we all must do to drive a car.

      So, his insurance company gets a copy of the police report outlining how this guy stored his guns.

      The insurance company, not being foolish, cancels his policy.

      The gun owner then has, say 90 days, to find new insurance. He starts shopping around but finds that the insurance database (yes, there is one) shows he's not a responsible gun owner--and cannot buy the required liability insurance, or else it's so expensive that he cannot afford it. Just like car insurance.

      No insurance, no guns. He has to sell them or store them somewhere besides in his own house, in a secure site such as at a gun range or in the home of someone who does have insurance.  

      When atlatls are outlawed, only outlaws will have atlatls.

      by wheeldog on Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 01:48:44 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Shouldn't the same thing should happen to him ... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DefendOurConstitution, gerrilea

      that would happen to anyone whose car was stolen then used in a crime?

      "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

      by Neuroptimalian on Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 06:43:25 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site