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View Diary: Arming teachers? First, don't shoot self or others in training. (295 comments)

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  •  I guess I'll take... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    coquiero, ban nock
    not quite as dumb

    as a compliment?

    I would like to know what you think is a reasonable method of protecting schools from madmen with guns.

    I have not heard of any proposals that suggests anything at all that would remove a significant number of guns that are already out there from getting into the hands of potential mass killers.

    Do you suggests making schools like prisons with barbed wire fences and metal detectors and police protection?

    Should we just ignore it because it is such an unlikely event?  I used to think that until it just became so common and so grotesque that I could no longer just hope it doesn't happen here anymore.

    Do you favor security guards or police officers patrolling the schools waiting for that one in a million chance of an intruder with a gun?  What will they do when there is not a "bad guy" to be found?  Will the next kid with a squirt gun or who gets in a fight be the "Chance they have been waiting for" to do something?

    Arming a "few" specially trained and compensated teachers is not an ideal solution.  I wouldn't even say it is a good solution.  However, it is the best solution I can come up with and if you have a better idea, I will drop my endorsement of it in a heart beat.

    "Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not YET sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favour..."

    by Buckeye Nut Schell on Thu Feb 28, 2013 at 08:45:08 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  There are lot of things that are being done (16+ / 0-)

      in schools.....keypads, buzz-in systems, shatter-proof glass, cameras, drills, smart phone sync-ups, education of parents and community members, public service announcements to other community stakeholders in the school, coordination among law enforcement, and more interventionists in the schools.

      All of that costs money though.  But we're having fund-raisers instead of just sticking a fucking gun in someone's hand.

      This entire mindset, the barbarism, has to just go away.

      David Koch is Longshanks, and Occupy is the real Braveheart.

      by PsychoSavannah on Thu Feb 28, 2013 at 09:08:19 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  "Barbarism"? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        GAS, Buckeye Nut Schell

        It is civilized not to want situations that are so backwards that defensive gun use will improve them.

        It is civilized to take active and even expensive measures to minimize them in the first place.

        It's not barbarism to be able to handle them when they happen anyway.

        Did you mean the "mindset" of thinking of guns first without exploring other options? If so, I'm with you.

        Freedom isn't free. Patriots pay taxes.

        by Dogs are fuzzy on Thu Feb 28, 2013 at 09:56:04 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Well said! n/t (2+ / 0-)

        I voted for the human beings.

        by denig on Thu Feb 28, 2013 at 11:10:28 AM PST

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      •  I think all of those things are good but... (0+ / 0-)

        Sandy Hook had many of those things (minus the shatter proof glass) and it still happened. I was traumatically effected by Sandy Hook even though it did not affact me personally.  I empathized with the victims, I felt anger towards the NRA and the gun enthusiasts but most of all, I felt a sense of helplessness towards protecting our kids from the next round of violence and there will be a next round.  There always seems to be a next round.

        I am not a gun enthusiast.  I don't want guns in my house and other than a couple antiques of my great grandfather, there are none.  I despise the NRA and I believe in everything you said and advocate going further.  I believe that we should require a gun license just like a car license and I think we should require insurance as well.

        I just do not see that as being enough with all of the guns already out there.  I believe that a sensible, well trained person can safely carry a concealed weapon with minimal danger.  Just like a trust FBI agents and police detectives to carry a weapon responsibly.  Are there problems with my beliefs? yes.  Will there be accidents? Probably.  The question is, does the benefit outweight the risks?  That is where there is a judgement call.  I believe the answer is yes.  I understand why some would feel the answer is no.  Does that warrant being called an idiot or a dumbass if we fall on different sides of that judgement call?  I do not think so.

        I appreciate your thought out response.  We are all on the same side here at dkos.  We are friends of a feather so to speak.  Attacking one another when we disagree with insults and ugliness is counter productive to our goals and it tears down our community.  I have always believed that we can disagree in a civil manner.

        "Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not YET sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favour..."

        by Buckeye Nut Schell on Thu Feb 28, 2013 at 11:54:46 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Resource Officers have been in FL schools (5+ / 0-)

      for many years.  Even that is a telling measure of our culture of violence and our gun culture.  Teachers carrying guns is ridiculous on its face.  No other civilized western democracy would allow the wild west to rule  in their countries and in their schools.  Stand your ground has been used to defend cold blooded murder in Florida.  Guns on college campuses is insane.  The VA does not allow guns on its grounds at any of their large and small (one of the largest and busiest here in Tampa, FL) campuses/hospitals/clinics.  Couldn't there be an argument that ex Navy Seals and Special Forces Troops would certainly protect and defend their sisters and brothers and family members with their guns?  You see how illogical and "dumb" such an idea is?

      •  Teachers carrying guns is ridiculous on its face. (3+ / 0-)

        I couldn't agree more.

        For some districts it will be an opportunity for some teachers to bring their hobby to school. And get paid to pursue their hobby.

        There is a George Zimmerman in the making.

        "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

        by LilithGardener on Thu Feb 28, 2013 at 04:15:58 PM PST

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    •  "if you have a better idea.." (6+ / 0-)

      Reduce the number of and availability of guns and ammunition.
      Make getting a gun MUCH harder by 1)registering all guns with a federal agency, 2)make all gun sales, including all private sales, subject to Background Checks that include access to the purchaser's medical history. 3)make licensing and certification universal for all gun owners. 4)outlaw possession of high kill rate slaughter weapons and high capacity magazines and 5)limit the amount of ammunition that an individual can buy within a reasonable period.
      There's 5 better ideas for a start.
      And there's many more where they came from.

      If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

      by CwV on Thu Feb 28, 2013 at 12:12:45 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think you make great points. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CwV

        I would like to see all of your points implemented (in varying degrees).  And when all of those are in place, I agree that all guns in schools should be removed.

        However, I am still stuck on, "What do we do now?"

        It will take years (if ever) for the policies you advocate (and I agree with) to get implemented even if we had the political will to make it happen.  Should we let "Best" be the enemy of "better" here?  I think that arming a select few volunteer teachers who are adaquately trained and compensated for their extra responsibility is the best option we have to protect kids from another "Sandy Hook" type scenerio.  It is not a ridiculous assertion from my perspective if it was done properly.

        Thank you for engaging the topic as opposed to the visceral, emotional rejection of an idea.  I understand that you do not agree with the solution I have proposed but at least you are putting forth valid arguments and addressing the subject at hand in a logical and thought out manner.  I appreciate that.

        "Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not YET sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favour..."

        by Buckeye Nut Schell on Thu Feb 28, 2013 at 01:03:29 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Here in New York I can't recall any mass (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DefendOurConstitution, coquiero

      shootings in schools. Ever.

      How did we do this? We pay taxes. The police respond to school security issues. I would imagine private schools may hire their own additional security.

      That doesn't mean we have police outside of every school 24/7.

      1. Police guard some some schools. Some highs chools (maybe all) have metal detectors. Most elementary/middle schools do not necessarily have metal detectors.

      2. Plenty of elementary schools have unlocked front doors where a member of the public can walk right in. No one would have to shoot out the locks like Adam Lanza did. They could walk right in.

      3. The population does not keep firearms in their homes or vehicles, (many do not have vehicles).

      The New York City Department of Education (NYCDOE) is the branch of municipal government in New York City that manages the city's public school system. It is the largest school system in the United States, with over 1.1 million students taught in more than 1,700 separate schools.
      635,000 students are in kindergarten through 8th grade. Highschool students take the Subway to school.

      "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

      by LilithGardener on Thu Feb 28, 2013 at 04:10:42 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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