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View Diary: Some Truth About Switzerland and Guns (121 comments)

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  •  You cannot remove the opportunity (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FrankRose

    to commit suicide.

    Rope, pestacides and a warm bath with a razor are all very effective methods having little to do with guns.

    If you remove guns, another method will be chosen in their place, for those who actually intend to kill themselves, versus crying for help.

    •  Wrong again (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mudfud27

      It is entirely possible - and done on a regular basis - to reduce opportunities to commit suicide.

      Again, that is why bridge builders put high fences on the pedestrian walkways of tall bridges: to reduce the opportunity to commit suicide.

      Without the tall fences, people jump off the bridge to their deaths.  With the fences in place, fewer people are able to jump off the bridge to their death.

      Some of those thwarted jumpers find other ways to kill themselves.  You are correct that it is not possible to eliminate ALL methods of killing oneself.

      Objective empirc studies of people who have tried but failed to kill themselves shows us that the MAJORITY of people who have been blocked in a suicide attempt DO NOT die by suicide, nor even make subsequent attmepts at suicide.  So there is evidence that blocking or stopping a suicide attempt does indeed save lives.

      Besides, do you really want to be the guy yelling "Jump!" at the poor soul standing on a high ledge, just so you aren't inconvenienced in your playing with your guns?

      "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

      by Hugh Jim Bissell on Sat Mar 02, 2013 at 08:19:55 AM PST

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      •  Japan has a higher suicide rate than the US & (0+ / 0-)

        virtually zero firearms.

        "inconvenienced"
        Is warrantless wiretaps simply an 'inconvenience' as well?
        I don't find liberties to be inconveniences. Why do you?

        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

        by FrankRose on Sat Mar 02, 2013 at 09:42:00 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The fact that Japan has a higher rate (0+ / 0-)

          The fact that Japan has a higher rate of suicide (can you please provide a supporting reference?) is not an argument for ignoring or eliminating gun laws here in the USA.

          While guns sales have increased every year since 2000, Americans have seen increased restrictions on a wide number of civil rights.  So more guns DOES NOT result in more rights, freedoms, or liberties.

          "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

          by Hugh Jim Bissell on Sat Mar 02, 2013 at 11:30:48 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Your answer to this: (0+ / 0-)

            "Americans have seen increased restrictions on a wide number of civil rights."

            ......is to push for more restrictions on rights?!?

            Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

            by FrankRose on Sat Mar 02, 2013 at 11:52:10 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  30,000+ dead would like to enjoy rights (0+ / 0-)

              Last year, more than 30,000 Americans died due to gunshot injuries.

              Those 30,000+ dead Americans would like to enjoy their civil rights, and would be doing so today were it not for their needless and preventable deaths due to guns.

              "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

              by Hugh Jim Bissell on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 07:43:33 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Over twice as many people were murdered (0+ / 0-)

                with bare hands than with all rifles combined. Over six times as many people were murdered with knives than by all rifles combined.

                If you want to focus on objects instead of murderers, you have a lot of work ahead of you.

                Further, 3000 people who died on 911 would like to enjoy rights......as such I assume that you are all in favor of the Patriot Act & warrantless wiretaps.

                For the record I'm not in favor of either the Patriot Act or warrantless wiretaps or AWB, all for the same reason:
                I do not believe in taking rights from innocent Americans for the acts of murderers.
                You do.

                Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                by FrankRose on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 10:53:29 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Guns and murders (0+ / 0-)

                  Guns are the instrument of choice for murderers: over 60% of all murders are accomplished by guns.  For every murder accomplished with bare hands, ten or more are accomplished with a gun.

                  If we would like to try and increase the number of people who are able to enjoy their civil rights, reducing the  number of guns available to the public is a good way to do this - because the scientific evidence shows us that the number of guns is positively correlated with the number of gun injuries and gun deaths.

                  As you point out, rifles are rarely used to kill Americans.  I suggest that gun enthusiasts be allowed to keep and bare muzzle-loading flintlock long rifles, just as our founding fathers intended in the constitution.

                  "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

                  by Hugh Jim Bissell on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 01:13:14 PM PST

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                  •  Your proposal is irrelevent. (0+ / 0-)

                    As is your laughable interpretation of what the founding fathers intended.

                    You want to take liberties from innocent Americans for your irrational fears.
                    I don't.

                    Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                    by FrankRose on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 02:53:30 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

    •  None of those methods (0+ / 0-)

      are as effective as a gun. They all present more opportunity for rescue than a gun. This is documented fact (as well as simple common sense).

      Why, in your love for guns, are you so willing to ignore fact, reason, and logic?

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