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View Diary: The most important professionals in our midst (91 comments)

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  •  Teachers should be paid $80k per year. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    palantir

    It should be as desirable to be one as to be any other valuable professional, and with the same level of expectations and respect.  They are far more valuable to society than the scumbags who piss on them.

    They call it a "free" market because they expect you to work for free.

    by Troubadour on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 11:57:55 AM PST

    •  Would be completely out of whack with salaries (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Troubadour

      of other professionals with similar training, esp if you take into acct days work each year and benefits.  Sure, relative to investment bankers, teachers don't make enough.  But compare their salaries to microbiologists, or public health educators, or clinical social workers, or chemists, or epidemiologists and they are really not doing that badly.  Of course, just about everyone in the public sector is doing poorly, unless they are a football or basketball coach at a big public univ.

      •  They should be making enough that (0+ / 0-)

        people want to be teachers, and don't just do it because they have no better options.

        They call it a "free" market because they expect you to work for free.

        by Troubadour on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 01:54:19 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Same with those other professions, agreed? (0+ / 0-)

          Particularly as they usually require higher level professional training than teachers, and work far more hours each year.  

          Yet we even pay city bus drivers way more, yet because they are union workers everyone here defends those salaries.

          •  So raise teacher pay, not lower driver pay. (0+ / 0-)

            Ask me if I'm afraid. I say, "Of course not. I'm a fool, and fools never die."

            by Troubadour on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 04:24:04 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  And raise the other professions even higher, yes? (0+ / 0-)

              For example the ones I mentioned, which once again require more education and where the jobs require more work hours per year than teachers.   Agreed?

              •  How many work hours per year do you think (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                ladybug53

                teachers put in? Don't be fooled by the fact that there's a two-month summer break. My cousin, who teaches middle school, routinely puts in 55 hours a week during the school year. I did the math. If you work 40 hrs/wk for 50 weeks of the year (full-time job with two weeks' vacation), that's 2000 hrs/yr. If you work 55 hours a week for 10 months, that's 55 hrs/wk x 4.33 weeks in a month x 10 months = 2381.5 hrs/yr. Teachers work more hours.

                Add to that the fact that reduced classroom funding means that teachers have to pay for some classroom supplies out of their own pocket.

                Add to that the fact that teachers have to try to inspire every student, those like DarkSyde and those who'd rather be playing football, or doing drugs, than sit in a classroom.

                Add to that the fact that in many school districts, teachers have to pursue continuing education, either to maintain current certifications or to earn new ones that make them more valuable. They often have to bear the costs of the continuing ed, plus the certification exams, themselves.

                Add to that the fact that teachers are required to do post-grad work just to get their teaching credential.

                That's in addition to any other post-grad work that they undertake. Many of them do because it increases the chance that they'll get a full-time position.

                Teachers incur a lot of expenditures that other professions don't.

                No, I wouldn't automatically pay others more.

                I'm a Democrat - I believe that government has a positive role to play in the lives of ordinary people.

                by 1BQ on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 09:05:06 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Most professionals work more than 40 hours per wk (0+ / 0-)

                  Teachers work nine months per year, not ten (don't forget two weeks Christmas break, one week spring break, 9-10 week summer break).   Plus they typically get more holidays than other employees and better benefits.  They only need to be on site from maybe 7:30 - 3:00.   They may work extra hours at home, but they can do that on their own schedule to some extent.  Most other workers do not have that flexibility.  

                  Most other professionals also have to pay for their own memberships in professional societies and continuing education.  And these other professionals are better educated in what are usually more highly competitive programs.

                  Your cousin sounds like a dedicated hard-working teacher.  Most probably are.  But it is the rare day at a public school when you can find more than a handful of teachers on campus at 4:00 pm.  And the quality and work habits of teachers vary enormously.  Your cousin knows this.  In my experience 20-30% of teachers are crappy and lazy.  Many of them are using the same handouts and tests they have used for years, sometimes without correcting the errors that have been pointed out to them.  Homework receives a check mark.  Twenty hour science projects are graded on the spot in a few minutes.  Emails and phone calls are not returned.  These bad eggs, and there are far too many, spoil all teachers' reputations.  Support for higher salaries would be much more favorably received if that lower strata could be dumped.

                  Oh well, sorry to sound grumpy about teachers.  I guess am feeling sore because we have had to put our kids in a private school because the local public middle school seriously sucked.

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