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View Diary: US college educated workers bypassed for jobs. Why? (574 comments)

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  •  Our labor market is gutted (67+ / 0-)

    In the twenty three years that I have worked in the IT profession, I have seen the labor market gutted.

    We no longer have on the job training programs, such as the six week program that I had when I hired on, and the two addition two week training programs that I participated in.   Instead, we advertise for highly skilled labor, offering only mid-level skilled wages.

    We no longer hire interns and entry level IT professionals.

    New development is outsourced to a firm that employs persons from India.   A few work on-site here in the U.S. at a higher labor rate, but manage a team of off-shore programmers, sometimes 12 or more to a project, who work at just $25 per hour.  U.S. employees don't get the opportunity to participate in this new development.

    Salaries are kept artificially low, because we are competing with an endless supply of $25/hour labor.

    And, yet, we don't have opportunities for jobs in India paying U.S. level salaries.  They take our available jobs, but aren't offering us theirs.

    This is unbalanced the capitalist "supply and demand" model of labor.   Employers claim that labor is "scarce" and therefore, they should work with colleges to recruit more students, hire more interns and entry level, offer more OTJ training, and offer higher salaries to attract good workers and to attract students into this profession.

    But, that's not happening.   They don't want U.S. workers.

    Labor is not scarce.  Or, if it is, it is because they have halted all of the activities that make labor plentiful, such as the programs I mentioned above.  They want the perception of scarce labor, in order to justify their demands for access to those $25/hr programmers.

    •  I can speak directly to what you wrote in regards (46+ / 0-)

      to IT.

      I went back to school in 2009 and graduated in 2011 with a second degree in IT.  At the time I started this endeavor, I figured, "hey, I'm good with computers, I like computers, they're not going anywhere."

      My thinking was I was making a pretty solid investment in my future.

      Well, I had the awesome luck to graduate right about the same time that two large IT employers in my area decided to axe their IT departments.  Both of these places were actually financial firms, but they had big IT shops.  The jobs were sent overseas and between 12 and 15 thousand IT professionals were sent scrambling to find new work.

      So, I've graduated, and I'm looking for entry level IT jobs - of which there are none.  I'm competing with a ton of experienced professionals with 5, 10, or 15 years under their belts.  These laid pf people are willing to accept pay cuts to keep working, and all the opportunities are contract jobs with no benefits.  They're unhappy, I'm unhappy, and no one can find work.  My class pretty much had zero chance to break into the workforce.

      As I sit here right now, I've only just been able to secure a job (after about 15 months of continuous searching).  I accepted the offer yesterday in fact.  It has nothing to do with IT.  Now please don't get me wrong - I'm excited about this opportunity and I'm looking forward to being able to have a career (not just a job I struggle with to pay bills), get married finally, support a family, and raise children.  And in this particular case, my two degrees DID make the difference for me over other candidates...  But it's been long road of endless resume peddling, and stress over "do I take something meaningless and low paying RIGHT NOW vs I need a career."

      Everything you wrote about in regards to IT is so spot on.  It sounded great in 2009 when I went back to school, and I enjoyed my program...  But wow, I had no idea I'd finish, have two degrees (both science/technical), and end up unemployable.

    •  $25 an hour... (10+ / 0-)

      Before I was "resource actioned", the company I was working for began to shift away from India and Brazil in favor of the Philippines and China.  Those guys were ecstatic if they were paid $12 an hour.  My entry level guys were $7.25 an hour - with a degree.  I was asked a number of times if we could use our US resources to teach less skilled people over there to code so we could pay $4.75 an hour for the bodies.  This was for a mission critical application that generated HUGE revenue for the company.

      The H1B people we had on the team generally tended to live together in a hotel or small apartment in order to save money to buy food.  One car for the group of them.  Terrible stories of how sad some of them were because they missed their families and friends.  IIRC if they blew it, and couldn't cut the work, the company was not responsible for paying to get them back home.  Someone may have better info than I do about that.

      I haven't been here long enough to be considered a Kossack, does that mean that I'm just a sack?

      by Hey338Too on Fri Mar 01, 2013 at 08:12:25 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  $25/hr? Ha!! Look what a colleague (14+ / 0-)

        recently sent me as a possible job for my currently unemployed software developer husband with 20 yrs experience in IT.

        PHP/mySQL Developer

        XXXX, a technology company based in XXX, UT, is looking for an individual to immediately fill the position of a full time or part time PHP developer (15 hrs/wk min). The job would require maintenance of existing dynamic web-based applications as well as development of new dynamic web-based projects. The applicant must have the ability to create user-intuitive interfaces.

        Pay is between $10-$20/hr and commensurate with skills and experience.

        Skills and qualifications:

        REQUIRED:
        •    Working knowledge of PHP, HTML & CSS
        •    At home navigating in a Linux environment
        •    Ability to learn new things quickly

        PREFERRED:
        •    A good command of mySQL syntax
        •    Understanding of JavaScript
        •    Ability to implement JavaScript frameworks & techniques (ex: AJAX, JSON, jQuery, ActiveJS, Backbone.js)
        •    Strong analytical skills
        •    Experience using a version control system (ex: GIT, SVN)
        •    Ability to write easy-to-read code with good commenting
        •    Skills in graphic design, photo editing & page layout to support web  page development.

        HELPFUL:
        •    Understanding of general Linux administrative tasks (ex: file permissions, shell scripts, crontab, user account maintenance, FTP account setup, Apache configuration, NGINX configuration, SSL Certificate management, etc.)
        •    Understanding of good DBA practices (proper use of database engines, data types, encoding, triggers, constraints, indexes etc.)

        Job benefits include:

        •    The opportunity to participate in a fast-growing tech company
        •    Opportunity for income growth
        •    10 paid holidays (full time only)
        •    10 days paid personal time (full time only)
        •    Flexible work time split between office and home

        We pay the 17 year old kid who cleans our rat and mouse cages at our lab $12/hr.  CostCo pays $17/hr.  

        "On their backs were vermiculate patterns that were maps of the world in its becoming. Maps...of a thing which could not be put back. Not be made right again."

        by middleagedhousewife on Fri Mar 01, 2013 at 10:38:13 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  The field (12+ / 0-)

      of IT has been decimated.

      There were so many families supported by IT salaries in the 90s.  Decimated in mid career.

      And it's not like IT workers are lazy.  It takes a lot to keep up with your field, mostly on your own dime and on your own time.  The hours and the pressure can be horrendous.  

      It's corruption, plain and simple.

      Democrats are right in the middle of this.  Five or six years ago I was astounded when even Ted Kennedy was ramping up the IT visa hype.  I couldn't believe it.


      "Justice is a commodity"

      by joanneleon on Fri Mar 01, 2013 at 08:23:14 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  my company hires only US workers (6+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      fou, greengemini, MrWebster, xomnow, Chi, DFWmom

      or workers with green cards. We don't outsource at all. We're a software company.

      This is becoming more common. Quality is higher and costs are certainly no higher with this model, when you look at the big picture. The company maintains much more control.

      By eliminating some of the pathways through which some companies can easily outsource we can encourage more companies to do this.

    •  You hit it dead on (6+ / 0-)

      on all points.

      At my previous job, off-shoring all new development was directly stated as a goal by management.

      "What could BPossibly go wrong??" -RLMiller "God is just pretend." - eru

      by nosleep4u on Fri Mar 01, 2013 at 09:20:21 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Small point (0+ / 0-)

        The developers aren't making that much.  The company that manages them makes that much.  I can imagine what they make, and it's not $25 bucks.  

        And, for a company to spend $25/hr for an employee, they'd pay the employee far less, because of the cost of vacation, social security, health insurance, facilities to work in, etc.   You'd probably end up back at minimum wage.

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