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View Diary: Keystone XL: Cynicism on the Potomac (42 comments)

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  •  TOo bad you didn't number those (1+ / 0-)
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    You arguments about China are a little unspecific full of unrealistic assumptions and over simplifications.  Much of your argument boils down to this:

    That oil WILL find its way
    Stopping the pipeline in no way stops the production of the oil sands....they will ship it on trucks rails and boats.
    Yes, CHina owns an oil company.  THat does not mean that defeat is inevitable.  Under your logic, no action would be worthwhile.  Absent more specific and credible discussion that takes into account the limited access points and political realities (such as the need for First Nation approval) this is just pie in the sky talk.   This notion completely ignores the reality of project development.
    That oil WILL find its way .. even to the US... on train cars... which DO NOT require approval... so the oil will be harvested, whether the US approves the pipeline or not.. how does that reduce emmision?
    Again, this is a vast oversimplification that ignores the actual realities here.  First, shipping hazardous substances by rail DOES require approvals, particularly at the volumes required.  Matching the flows of XL by rail would a) require a massive volume b) require significant investment in infrastructure and c) would be more expensive to ship even after.  again, the basics of project economics show clearly that delaying a project and making it more expensive makes it more likely to be uneconomical and reduces the rate at which it is exploited.  Here, we could substantially slow the exploitation, even if it isn't halted.
    Obama can use the EPA to impose regulations, like he is doing for the coal plants....he can require companies to build out solar and wind to offset the the dirty factor.. so he does have leeway.
    Obama has leeway where authorized by Congress.  Here, these actions are taken under the authority under the Clean Air Act.  IT does not include authority to regulate this pipeline as it is not a stationary source, much less to impose taxes (did I mention I am an environmental lawyer?).
    Kinder Morgan already has a pipeline to Vancouver... without the pipeline, more and more tankers will be traveling thru the Salish Sea, with accidents just waiting to happen.
    As for the comment about the "overdue earthquake". Its a fact. The Pacific NW is overdue. Look at what happened in Indonesia....imagine if oil tankers were part of that equation.
    Yes, a major earthquake is due in the next couple of hundred years.  However, if there's no pipeline, there are no tankers.  It's a point, but not a very relevant one.
    "Utterly realistic" about water pipelines? Really? What planet are you living on? Don't you see the SW is drying up? Where do you think the millions of people will get their water from? Talk about unrealistic.. or perhaps living in a bubble....? Give it 10 years and get back to me on that one...Water will be the new oil...
    I live in the west, so I know about our water issues.  HOwever, there is no current proposal of any kind for such a pipeline, nor will there be unless the Pacific NOrthwest dries up.  THis is so unbelievably speculative, it's barely worth rebuilding.  Besides in ten years, even boneheaded Canadians will recognize that climate change science is real and majority opinion will thank environmentalists for blocking the XL in the teeth of opposition.  THey'll give us the water out of gratitude. (o.k., that was snark)

    And here's the kicker:

    Do you really think one pipeline denial will stop the oil companies from harvesting the oilsands?
    No, I don't, and I don't think anyone does.  Stopping many pipelines and blocking rail, and engaging in shareholder actions, boycotts, divestment campaigns, lawsuits, and the like.  THAT will stop it.

    Lose the pipeline battle, and the tar sands war is lost.  Win it, and we stand a chance

    As for the rest, mother nature does bat last, but she has help, and we're NOT going to stop fighting against the doomers and earthburners who want to find any excuse to wipe out human civilization for a quick buck.

    Hay hombres que luchan un dia, y son buenos Hay otros que luchan un año, y son mejores Hay quienes luchan muchos años, y son muy buenos. Pero hay los que luchan toda la vida. Esos son los imprescendibles.

    by Mindful Nature on Sat Mar 02, 2013 at 08:20:48 AM PST

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    •  "Under your logic, no action would be worthwhile" (0+ / 0-)

      Those are your words, not mine. I just think the energy you are expending on that doesn't address all the things that will result from no pipeline. China will buy it and burn it, with no restrcitions, creating a larger dirty footprint then the US...tankers will end up on the west coast which I feel are more of a threat then the pipeline.
      Ironically, the best thing to stop the pipeline would be a major depression, as oil prices will plummet making the oil sands less profitable or make them operate at a loss.
      Given the sequestration and the debt ceiling, we may very well be headed for one. Life sometimes takes us places we never think we will be...while giving us the solutions we seek. It will also simplfy the lifestyles we can't voluntary give up by free choice but are required to to live on the planet more sustainably..
      The best thing people can do is learn to grow their own food. Just imagine how much fuel it takes to ship food items hundreds or thousands of miles across the country when people can grow or support locally. Thats where I put my energy. Reduce the need for the oil, and the oil sands will dry up themselves. Even container gardening in the city, multiplied by millions or people, can have a massive effect on oil reduction. But most people food think comes from a grocery store.  My action is growing as much of my own food as I can. Reducing my own footprint.

      •  great is the power (0+ / 0-)

        of steady misrepresentation.  I've refuted your claims that because oil companies are powerful and rich, resistance is futile (it will be developed anyway) now several times.  I'd recommend learning more about the actual issues involved and the parameters of what is a very complex issue.  

        Hay hombres que luchan un dia, y son buenos Hay otros que luchan un año, y son mejores Hay quienes luchan muchos años, y son muy buenos. Pero hay los que luchan toda la vida. Esos son los imprescendibles.

        by Mindful Nature on Sat Mar 02, 2013 at 05:47:22 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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