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View Diary: When gun control is outlawed... (144 comments)

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  •  And the NRA, that's who. (12+ / 0-)

    The vast majority of people are not on your side. You are a dwindling minority.

    Maya Angelou: "Without courage, we cannot practice any other virtue with consistency. We can't be kind, true, merciful, generous, or honest."

    by JoanMar on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 01:06:02 PM PST

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    •  The NRA which is a full-fledged (11+ / 0-)

      affiliate of the teabaggers and considered one of the fringe elements of the GOP.
      Nice company you keep there, KV.
      Lie with dogs wake up with fleas.

      Maya Angelou: "Without courage, we cannot practice any other virtue with consistency. We can't be kind, true, merciful, generous, or honest."

      by JoanMar on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 01:08:31 PM PST

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      •  I support lots of different things. (7+ / 0-)

        Being pro-LGBT doesn't make me a Log Cabin Republican.

        Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

        by KVoimakas on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 01:11:30 PM PST

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        •  Bob Packwood, is that you? nt (0+ / 0-)

          "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

          by LilithGardener on Tue Mar 05, 2013 at 07:33:05 AM PST

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          •  You're calling me a woman abuser and sexual (0+ / 0-)

            assaulter? Really?

            Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

            by KVoimakas on Tue Mar 05, 2013 at 07:37:12 AM PST

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            •  No I'm not calling you anything (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              glorificus

              I'm calling your attention to your logic about your advocacy in other areas.

              A person's advocacy in one area doesn't give them a pass in other areas, and it doesn't automatically make them an ally. For example, advocacy for LGBT policy doesn't provide any cover to those who pass voter ID laws that disenfranchise the poor.

              Bob Packwood was a long term advocate for policies at the time that were considered "women's issues." There were so few women in congress at the time that any man who was advocating for women in Congress was welcomed and supported. He used his advocacy for women at the policy level as a cover for his horrible private actions.

              At the same time he was a complete schmuck toward women wherever he thought he could get away with it. His supporters eventually faced a serious moral dilemma. Some of those who knew about his private behavior thought that Bob's "private conduct" was an unfortunate price to pay for getting laws passed.

              Admirable advocacy in one area does not remove the ethical dilemma inherent in RkBA policy and advocacy, or the very obvious society problem of gun violence.

              "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

              by LilithGardener on Tue Mar 05, 2013 at 09:06:43 AM PST

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              •  Interesting. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                ancblu
                Admirable advocacy in one area does not remove the ethical dilemma inherent in RkBA policy and advocacy, or the very obvious society problem of gun violence.
                I see no ethical dilemma inherent in RKBA policy or advocacy. My stances on abortion (while more extreme than my stances on RKBA) are pretty close in the general sense.

                Don't like 'em? Don't have one. Less restrictions (though with abortion, I also suggest federal funding, and more expansions) on both abortions and RKBA.

                Where's this obvious societal problem with gun violence? We have liberalized these laws and firearm related homicide continues to drop at the national level (look back over the last 30 years).

                Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

                by KVoimakas on Tue Mar 05, 2013 at 09:14:42 AM PST

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                •  Please proceed (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  glorificus
                  Where's this obvious societal problem with gun violence?

                  "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                  by LilithGardener on Tue Mar 05, 2013 at 09:18:37 AM PST

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                •  A for ernest effort (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  glorificus
                  Don't like 'em? Don't have one.
                  Go ahead and find any abortion that caused one child to accidentally kill themselves.

                  Go ahead and find any abortion that caused one child to accidentally kill their their friend or sibling.

                  Go ahead and find any abortion that caused one child to accidentally kill their parent.

                  Abortions aren't used as weapons. Abortions are useful as a  device to terrorize people.

                  "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                  by LilithGardener on Tue Mar 05, 2013 at 09:36:13 AM PST

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                  •  Abortions are [not] useful as a device (0+ / 0-)

                    "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                    by LilithGardener on Tue Mar 05, 2013 at 09:36:55 AM PST

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                  •  Firearms don't cause those items either. (0+ / 0-)

                    Firearms can be used to commit those things you are talking about.

                    Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

                    by KVoimakas on Tue Mar 05, 2013 at 11:22:57 AM PST

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                    •  And are, as the author said, at the rate of (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      LilithGardener

                      about 87 deaths a day.

                      I didn't keep track, but were the deaths from AIDS in the 1970s-'80s that high?

                      Why it is a crime when AIDS was killing people (who managed to catch a preventable disease) at that rate but a self-avowed liberal like yourself supports allowing 80 to 90 deaths A DAY from guns?

                      Gay men have more right to live than 6 year olds, or teenage black youth?

                      *There are two sides to every horseshit.* Kos

                      by glorificus on Tue Mar 05, 2013 at 04:20:35 PM PST

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                      •  I new people who didn't think anyone had (0+ / 0-)

                        any right to treatment, because it WAS a preventable disease.

                        And they of course assumed anyone who got infected was just careless, lazy, promiscuous, drug user, etc. And anyone who had accidentally infected others was so obviously beneath social value as a human being we should just let them all die.

                        "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                        by LilithGardener on Tue Mar 05, 2013 at 04:37:45 PM PST

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                        •  So how is that different from the dozens of (0+ / 0-)

                          daily deaths from guns?

                          Obviously those victims are worthless.

                          *There are two sides to every horseshit.* Kos

                          by glorificus on Tue Mar 05, 2013 at 04:45:16 PM PST

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                          •  It's not and I'm am fully supportive of (0+ / 0-)

                            both better enforcement of existing law, and new restrictions on ownership, transfer, and use.

                            In some ways I think our gun laws, especially our selective enforcement of current law, is just another mechanism to feed minorities, poor and stupid people into the prison pipeline.

                            If they accidentally shoot themselves and survive, they lose their job, can't afford healthcare, etc. They or someone who depended on them for half the mortgage loses out, for the rest of their lives.

                            Rich guy's kid finds his unsecured firearm and shoots a sibling or friend with it; oh, that was an accident. No charges are filed. Kid gets excellent medical care and rich guy goes on with his life.

                            "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                            by LilithGardener on Tue Mar 05, 2013 at 04:52:12 PM PST

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                      •  Wrong frame, again. (0+ / 0-)

                        I don't support "allowing" 80-90 deaths a day. But because I don't support many of the idiotic gun control laws out there, I must support those people dying.

                        Uh. No.

                        Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

                        by KVoimakas on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 06:17:24 AM PST

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    •  Re: (2+ / 0-)

      Debatable, but even if it were true then that "vast majority" aren't exactly in the target demo for these suppliers.  

      When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

      by Patrick Costighan on Mon Mar 04, 2013 at 03:32:03 PM PST

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