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View Diary: You will know fear! (104 comments)

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  •  Yes I have and you absolutely refuse to consider (4+ / 0-)

    gun registration which is the only way that UBC can be made effective. Otherwise it's entirely voluntary and that works so well, doncha know.
    Your "support" for UBC is a disingenuous dodge.

    If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

    by CwV on Tue Mar 05, 2013 at 12:20:45 PM PST

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    •  I'm not talking about me. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      FrankRose

      That's why I said RKBAers. But hey, you should be happy I don't oppose them at least.

      I do oppose registration. Whole heartedly.

      Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

      by KVoimakas on Tue Mar 05, 2013 at 12:23:02 PM PST

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    •  Although I support registration (5+ / 0-)

      and repealing the FOPA provision prohibiting a federal gun registry, if the Senate can devise a record-keeping system that is enforceable without recourse to the feds, that'll do for me. Mainly I want it to be effective. An honor system likely wouldn't.

      We demanded a plan to reduce gun violence. Now it's time to demand a vote.

      by tytalus on Tue Mar 05, 2013 at 12:25:34 PM PST

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      •  honor system is what we have now (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tytalus, S F Hippie

        and it's definitely NOT working.

        "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

        by LilithGardener on Tue Mar 05, 2013 at 03:49:12 PM PST

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      •  Re: (0+ / 0-)

        You do know that you're proposing an honor system, right?

        When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

        by Patrick Costighan on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 08:44:56 AM PST

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        •  Records kept by gun dealers, or police (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          LilithGardener

          can be subject to supervision and surveillance, so no, I don't consider options like those to be an honor system. Key word was 'enforceable'.

          We demanded a plan to reduce gun violence. Now it's time to demand a vote.

          by tytalus on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 09:05:47 AM PST

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          •  Re: (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            KVoimakas

            Records kept by buyers and sellers can be subject to inspection with a warrant, and their maintenance enforced by threat of prosecution.  If that setup amounts to an honor system, so does yours; both rely on people abiding by the law and transferring firearms through a tracking system.

            You may say your setup is more convenient for law enforcement (though even that's doubtful given technology available to us today).  It certainly involves less physical and legal hurdles to prevent abuse.  But it is still an honor system by your own definition and the inability to distinguish its auditability from a private tracking system.

            When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

            by Patrick Costighan on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 09:14:05 AM PST

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            •  Yep, there's the word-twisting (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              LilithGardener

              Even though the effectiveness and accountability in using gun dealers and police is obvious even to you, you wish to equate them with clearly less effective options. That's what I expected. You're essentially advocating a system that would be harder to use, weaker on enforcement and more prone to abuse.

              We demanded a plan to reduce gun violence. Now it's time to demand a vote.

              by tytalus on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 10:11:17 AM PST

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