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View Diary: Open thread for night owls: Number of far-right 'Patriot' groups at all-time high (130 comments)

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  •   I'm gratified to see (0+ / 0-)

    more connections between gun paranoia and terrorism/hate groups.  It's a very good fit.

    I've long tangled with our own RKBA and found an inviolable emotional connection between their personalities and their guns.  And I took an online beat-down each time I mentioned it.  But guns were part of their manhood, their psyche and they couldn't/wouldn't recognize it.

    It's only been since 12/14/12 that a significant number of Kos members have shut down their abusive tactics and it's highlighted the need for control of guns at the same time the country has refused to forget the carnage of Newtown.

    The abuse is gone, for the most part, and I hope those members are considering their own, personal, emotional needs for weaponry.  It can't do them any harm.

    In the mean time, gun control continues to hold sway in the public discourse.  The NRA, it seems, is not all-powerful and gun-nuts do not hold absolute power over parents, teachers, families, etc.

    The debate will continue until some sanity is established.

    Guns don't kill people but there's always one there at the time of death.

    by john07801 on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 12:27:48 AM PST

    •  Owning guns can make (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Calamity Jean, john07801

      an ignorant loser feel like a god with the power of life and death. For such people guns are intoxicants. The prospect of losing their guns makes them feel as if they were being castrated or enslaved.

      Not every gun-owner is like this. But it is pretty easy to identify those who "gun drunks."

      •  Leftie gun hate is like righty abortion hate. (10+ / 0-)

        The right hates abortions as a way out of what they consider 'bad' behavior of being freely sexual. Behavior which is actually none of their business, but they are so knee jerk about it that they try for a scorched earth assault on being sexual to the point of being harmful. Such as not being upset about a woman who dies of pregnancy complications because you will get collateral damage in the scorched earth crusade against sexuality.
        But people are going to get busy, so spending money on education and good teachers is better than spending money on TRAP laws and "zero tolerance" policies.

        The left hates guns as a way out of what they consider 'bad' behavior of being freely individual and enforcing those personal boundaries. Behavior which is actually none of their business, but they are so knee jerk about it that they try for a scorched earth assault on being able to individually pull out of the dependence on local structure to the point of being harmful. Such as the 7 year old boy in baltimore maryland who failed at nibbling his pop tart into a mountain shape and saw it had turned into a gun instead, and was suspended because he held it and said Bang Bang, because you will get collateral damage like that 7 year old boy in the scorched earth crusade against the tools of being non-dependent.
        But people are going to do things for themselves, when the choice is between suffering at the hands of another or pulling themself out of the predicament people many times choose to take action on their own behalf. So spending money on education and good teachers is better than spending money on TRAG laws and "zero tolerance" policies.

        The right is still fighting against acorn, falsely thinking that people banding together is a sign that acorn still exists when it's just a fact that people band together.
        The left is still fighting against guns, falsely thinking that people taking steps to prepare against bad events is a sign that guns are still too free from legislation when it's just a fact that people prepare for bad events.
        What happens when acorn is replaced by another social tool of a different name but the same effect would be the same thing as happens when guns are replaced by another physical tool with the same effect. The right wing would seek to go scorched earth on the "New Acorn" while the left wing would seek to go scorched earth on the "New Gun". Neither side sees that it's not the tool, it's the people fulfilling a reasonable need.

        This status will, I predict, continue until the right wing rank and file is shaken from their delusions by economic events and the left wing rank and file is shaken from their delusions by social upheaval.

        It's safe to trust a sane person with the keys to nuclear weapons, but it's not safe to trust an insane person with the cleaners under the kitchen sink. The answer is not more gun control, it's people care.

        by JayFromPA on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 06:00:54 AM PST

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        •  Personally, (3+ / 0-)

          I don't hate guns-- I am indifferent to them. And I would never presume that every gun-owner is a gun-drunk. It does not bother me that my neighbor goes hunting with a shotgun and owns a handgun for self-defense, or has a small collection of non-functioning antique guns with historical value.

          But I do consider potentially dangerous those people who are obviously obsessed with guns, have amassed arsenals of the latest and deadliest military weapons, and engage in threatening hate rhetoric. Such gun-drunks are the "bad event" I would hope we prepare against. As potential "bad events" go they appear more imminently dangerous than a federal/UN "ZOG tyranny" or a zombie infestation.    

          •  Careful with the terms there. (5+ / 0-)

            One man's collection is another man's arsenal.

            One man's "military weapon" is another man's "lookalike". Putting a plastic stock on a rifle doesn't change the function any more than putting racing stripes on a car makes it faster. You fall into that trap when you talk about arsenals of the deadliest military weapons.

            One man's actual military sniper weapon (mosin nagant) is another man's cheap deer rifle.

            And yeah, it's possible to hunt with a handgun. Shorter range, more care with aim, need a large caliber; much like hunting with a bow/arrow requires shorter range than a rifle and more care with aim than a rifle, and needs a large caliber broadhead.

            And a shotgun... is the gun I would worry about most in terms of someone going off the rails and going on a rampage. But even more concerning would be someone who picked the most deadly methods - diesel and fertilizer, or some gas mixture. Bombs are worse than any gun. Just ask oklahoma city about that.

            But I do consider potentially dangerous those people who are obviously obsessed with guns, have amassed arsenals of the latest and deadliest military weapons, and engage in threatening hate rhetoric.
            The only critical element there is the hate rhetoric. That is the fire that causes the person to act, using opposable thumbs and the natural inventiveness of homo sapiens to come up with a way to express that hate.

            Remove the hate = prevent the bad event.

            It's safe to trust a sane person with the keys to nuclear weapons, but it's not safe to trust an insane person with the cleaners under the kitchen sink. The answer is not more gun control, it's people care.

            by JayFromPA on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 08:50:26 AM PST

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            •  There are hobbies, and then there are hobbies. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              LilithGardener, john07801

              On the whole I think model railroad nuts are less of a danger to their neighbors and their children than gun nuts.

              •  A nut is a nut. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                gerrilea, happy camper

                People been killing each other since the first time Thag the neanderthal decided he should have gotten more of the wildebeest than Gronk. Actually, the proto-sapiens were doing it earlier than that, it's just Thag or some other such name was the first that qualified as a "person".

                Rock - first projectile. Thrown by raw arm strength.

                Spear - first pointed warhead

                It's all about the sanity and mental well-being of the person. Obama is a sane guy, we can trust him with a lot fo things, such as nukes. McCain is not as sane, we could not trust him with nukes because he might "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb iran".

                We restrict access based on scrutiny of the person, not the object.

                Our problem is that the procedure for scrutinizing the person is b0rken. The scrutinizers are being kept from the pertinent information.

                Example: Cho of virginia tech.
                Outcome: Bad.
                Example: Romney for president.
                Outcome: Good.

                In both cases, the people in charge of giving an informed decision were not given the full information. We got lucky that what we did get about romney was enough to deny him from what he wanted. Cho, a different story.

                But there's a big dependence on the visuals going on lately. People unable to see past the rhetoric to the hard science underneath. Every "sniper" rifle is just a deer rifle that was used to aim at a person instead of a deer. Every 'military style' rifle is just a hog hunting rifle with different clothing. Putting flames on a volvo doesn't make it fit for the race track, putting a telescoping stock or pistol grip on a deer rifle doesn't make it fit for fighting in afghanistan.

                Put a deer rifle in the hands of a nut, and you get the DC Beltway Sniper. Put a 'sniper' rifle in the hands of a deer hunter and you have a family eating organic hormone-free healthy meat.

                It comes down to the person, not the 'hobby', whether the person is a nut or not.

                It's safe to trust a sane person with the keys to nuclear weapons, but it's not safe to trust an insane person with the cleaners under the kitchen sink. The answer is not more gun control, it's people care.

                by JayFromPA on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 05:27:04 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

    •  Are you sure you're ready for that "sanity"? (10+ / 0-)

      Step Away From The Danish: Maryland Seven-Year-Old Boy Suspended For Nibbling Lunch Tart Into Gun Shape

      We have yet another case of lunacy in our schools as part of the zero tolerance policy regarding guns. We have previously explored how teachers and school administrators are expelling or suspending students for everything from finger guns to stick figures.

      -cut-

      Counseling for a lethal pop tart? At what point do administrators or teachers actually get fired for such foolishness?

      Rising Voice of Gun Ownership Is Female
      Women’s participation in shooting sports has surged over the last decade, increasing by 51.5 percent for target shooting from 2001 to 2011, to just over 5 million women, and by 41.8 percent for hunting, according to the National Sporting Goods Association.
      I'm really not sure how you explain these things. Besides owning a firearm is not a terrorist act, really.  It is an enumerated protected right.

      And I do say that as a non-gun owner.  I know firsthand that female co-workers have been applying for and getting firearms permits here in New York.  The reasons vary but the biggest is personal protection.  

      -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

      by gerrilea on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 05:32:30 AM PST

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    •  Ah, gun owners are mentally ill. (10+ / 0-)

      Got it.

      Good luck with that.

      Your hate-mail will be graded.

      by PavePusher on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 05:46:41 AM PST

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    •  Bill? Bill Frist? (7+ / 0-)

      Is that you, Bill?

      "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

      by happy camper on Wed Mar 06, 2013 at 05:53:08 AM PST

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